Like Vettel said, once a driver is on the inside and has his car slightly ahead, he usually dictates where both cars go.
webberfanboy - 16 years ago
Lol vetted your not going to beat mark so you take him out
ScareCrow - 16 years ago
Vettel was in the wrong. His a spoilt little brat. In Monza 08' I thought he could be a good championship material but now I see a little spoilt kid that doesn't appreciate what he has infront of him compared to other drivers. Not everyone on the grid has a competitive car.
Todd - 16 years ago
Webber did exactly the right thing, he knew he could only move once down the straight and moved to the inside. He left enough room for Vettle to come down the inside but he knew that the inside line was the slippery line into the next left hander, there was by lap 41 already a lot of marbles (rubber) offline and as this track is not used regularly during the year, still dusty on that unused inside line to the corner.
Vettel knew this too and didnt want to brake on the slippery line as he would either have to (1) brake earlier and webber would have driven around the outside of him then had the line for the next corner or (2) braked too late and missed the corner and webber would just brake at his normal breaking marker and go up the inside of Vettel.
Vettel knew this as well and decided he needed to bully webber to move wide so he could take the racing line, Webber wasnt going to move, why should he, he knew the various outcomes as well. Vettle chose to try to bully Webber and lost ....
He will think twice before trying this again.
Mike - 16 years ago
Webber was right to hold his line. He gave Vettel enough room. Vettel did not gently move to the right to take the racing line, he swerved at Webber to put the frightners on him. Webber needs to maintain dominance over Vette in the teaml. His hard stance on not jumping out of the way was a tradition from the days of Alesi that seems to be lost in modern PC F1. Sometimes you have to throw a race to teach a lesson. Vettel will think twice before doing that again. I think the team are down on Webber because he's spoiling the game plan - he's supposed to be the wingman not the championship leader. Vettel is being a crybaby and the team are being enablers to that behaviour.
Jon - 16 years ago
Out of 1200 people 82% of people say Vettel fault. For those who say it's Webber's fault, your credibility is 0.
Dan - 16 years ago
Everyone's missing out the fact that the following corner (had they made it to it) is a right hander. Thus as long as Webber could have managed to stay with his front wheel half way alongside Vettel's car, he would have had advantage into the next corner and would probably have come out on top. Webber could have moved across a bit to give Vettel more room (they are in the same team afterall so not crashing into each other is the most important thing!) but equally Vettel should not have pulled across into space that just wasn't there.
Mark - 16 years ago
Warren you're wrong. If Webber had held a straight line all the way to the corner, which he could quite rightly have done so, then he would have had to yield to Vettel at the corner anyway, assuming Vettel was still ahead, as Vettel had the inside line. All Vettel had to do was keep his nose in front and stay close to Webber and the corner was his. Webber didn't have to move right and make it easy for Vettel, that's racing. Vettel chose to drive into Webber, his fault, end of story.
Abuelo - 16 years ago
I watched in shock and amazement when a silly immature young man tried to out pace his team-mate in a ridiculous place, blind and at high speed. If they had been in opposing teams the stewards would have had no option but to fine Vettel as happened to Trulli last year. Racing is dangerous and risks are to be taken when there is a gain involved. Park the ego on the grass not the bloody car you imbecile. I hope the repair bill will come out of his millions salary.
Warren - 16 years ago
@Darcy! Watch any overtake! Once two cars are side by side, and a left hander is coming up, an experienced driver will move right towards the racing line to try and cut in on the inside at the same time, the driver on the inside also moves to the right to get as much speed as possible out of the upcoming left hander! Because at this stage, the driver on the inside even if just a nose ahead already has the advantage. Fine you could say that Vettel should have eased a bit more steady to the right and watch webber's reaction. Which is why I said it was both drivers at fault with more towards webber. By webber keeeping his car there, he was pushing vettel more and more away from the racing line which would have eventually ended up in a crash eventually when the get to the corner.
Hamish - 16 years ago
Warren's logic is the same as some people when Prost drove into Senna in Japan '89. i.e. Senna put himself there, late braking down the inside, but Prost knew that all he had to do was drive into him to take him out of the title chase. Therefore it was Senna's fault because he should never have been there...some logic...it's called racing!
When the 2 Red Bulls touched, Vettel was a good 1 to 1.5m from the left hand side of the track. What I find most amazing about this is that Vettel's move was so sudden, yet Webber's reaction was incredibly quick...he turned his wheel to the right in attampt to avoid contact. He didn't succeed, but I reckon this was crucial for him to remain in the race. Wonderful drive again Mark Webber, despite the incident.
Vettel I find, is still just a spoilt little boy...with a lot of growing up to do (I refer to his gesticulations after the incident).
matigijp - 16 years ago
it was vettels fault. I wasn't really sure until I had seen the replay filmed from vettels car. you can see webber keeping his steering wheel perfectly straight and vettel just goes right a little bit. might have been on accident, to avoid the grass or to get back on the line, but it was still his fault.
doodyboy - 16 years ago
Had they been in different teams, it was clearly Vettel's fault. He drove into Webber. Because they are in the same team, they are both equally to blame. Like Button and Hamilton, they should have made room for each other. Horner was right. They should not have been there and everybody lost out. If you're going to have a swinging dicks competition then make sure there's enough room!
TDiddy - 16 years ago
If the impact had happened whilst Vettel's wheel was still on or near the white line, then fair enough, but watch how far his left wheel moves right BEFORE the point of impact. Seb's in-car cam, and the front on shot are both dead giveaways. No doubt.
Warren, to quote you "By webber holding his car steady, he was inviting a crash." Do you actually know what you said. By holding a straight line, he is inviting a crash? You fool! In fact nearly everything you said as false as you contravened the FIA regulations and the laws of common sense. It's 'fans' like you that bring this sport down.
Warren - 16 years ago
It's def 50-50 leaning more towards webber's fault. By webber holding his car steady, he was inviting a crash. If you see any overtaking move in F1, once their side by side, both drivers move to the right towards the racing line for the next turn, with the driver on the inside having the advantage. Exactly the same thing happened with the mclarens! If you notice, Button moved to the right when both where side by side. Vettel was def in the right to push the pair back towards the racing line! So in fact I'll say it was more webber's fault!
Like Vettel said, once a driver is on the inside and has his car slightly ahead, he usually dictates where both cars go.
Lol vetted your not going to beat mark so you take him out
Vettel was in the wrong. His a spoilt little brat. In Monza 08' I thought he could be a good championship material but now I see a little spoilt kid that doesn't appreciate what he has infront of him compared to other drivers. Not everyone on the grid has a competitive car.
Webber did exactly the right thing, he knew he could only move once down the straight and moved to the inside. He left enough room for Vettle to come down the inside but he knew that the inside line was the slippery line into the next left hander, there was by lap 41 already a lot of marbles (rubber) offline and as this track is not used regularly during the year, still dusty on that unused inside line to the corner.
Vettel knew this too and didnt want to brake on the slippery line as he would either have to (1) brake earlier and webber would have driven around the outside of him then had the line for the next corner or (2) braked too late and missed the corner and webber would just brake at his normal breaking marker and go up the inside of Vettel.
Vettel knew this as well and decided he needed to bully webber to move wide so he could take the racing line, Webber wasnt going to move, why should he, he knew the various outcomes as well. Vettle chose to try to bully Webber and lost ....
He will think twice before trying this again.
Webber was right to hold his line. He gave Vettel enough room. Vettel did not gently move to the right to take the racing line, he swerved at Webber to put the frightners on him. Webber needs to maintain dominance over Vette in the teaml. His hard stance on not jumping out of the way was a tradition from the days of Alesi that seems to be lost in modern PC F1. Sometimes you have to throw a race to teach a lesson. Vettel will think twice before doing that again. I think the team are down on Webber because he's spoiling the game plan - he's supposed to be the wingman not the championship leader. Vettel is being a crybaby and the team are being enablers to that behaviour.
Out of 1200 people 82% of people say Vettel fault. For those who say it's Webber's fault, your credibility is 0.
Everyone's missing out the fact that the following corner (had they made it to it) is a right hander. Thus as long as Webber could have managed to stay with his front wheel half way alongside Vettel's car, he would have had advantage into the next corner and would probably have come out on top. Webber could have moved across a bit to give Vettel more room (they are in the same team afterall so not crashing into each other is the most important thing!) but equally Vettel should not have pulled across into space that just wasn't there.
Warren you're wrong. If Webber had held a straight line all the way to the corner, which he could quite rightly have done so, then he would have had to yield to Vettel at the corner anyway, assuming Vettel was still ahead, as Vettel had the inside line. All Vettel had to do was keep his nose in front and stay close to Webber and the corner was his. Webber didn't have to move right and make it easy for Vettel, that's racing. Vettel chose to drive into Webber, his fault, end of story.
I watched in shock and amazement when a silly immature young man tried to out pace his team-mate in a ridiculous place, blind and at high speed. If they had been in opposing teams the stewards would have had no option but to fine Vettel as happened to Trulli last year. Racing is dangerous and risks are to be taken when there is a gain involved. Park the ego on the grass not the bloody car you imbecile. I hope the repair bill will come out of his millions salary.
@Darcy! Watch any overtake! Once two cars are side by side, and a left hander is coming up, an experienced driver will move right towards the racing line to try and cut in on the inside at the same time, the driver on the inside also moves to the right to get as much speed as possible out of the upcoming left hander! Because at this stage, the driver on the inside even if just a nose ahead already has the advantage. Fine you could say that Vettel should have eased a bit more steady to the right and watch webber's reaction. Which is why I said it was both drivers at fault with more towards webber. By webber keeeping his car there, he was pushing vettel more and more away from the racing line which would have eventually ended up in a crash eventually when the get to the corner.
Warren's logic is the same as some people when Prost drove into Senna in Japan '89. i.e. Senna put himself there, late braking down the inside, but Prost knew that all he had to do was drive into him to take him out of the title chase. Therefore it was Senna's fault because he should never have been there...some logic...it's called racing!
When the 2 Red Bulls touched, Vettel was a good 1 to 1.5m from the left hand side of the track. What I find most amazing about this is that Vettel's move was so sudden, yet Webber's reaction was incredibly quick...he turned his wheel to the right in attampt to avoid contact. He didn't succeed, but I reckon this was crucial for him to remain in the race. Wonderful drive again Mark Webber, despite the incident.
Vettel I find, is still just a spoilt little boy...with a lot of growing up to do (I refer to his gesticulations after the incident).
it was vettels fault. I wasn't really sure until I had seen the replay filmed from vettels car. you can see webber keeping his steering wheel perfectly straight and vettel just goes right a little bit. might have been on accident, to avoid the grass or to get back on the line, but it was still his fault.
Had they been in different teams, it was clearly Vettel's fault. He drove into Webber. Because they are in the same team, they are both equally to blame. Like Button and Hamilton, they should have made room for each other. Horner was right. They should not have been there and everybody lost out. If you're going to have a swinging dicks competition then make sure there's enough room!
If the impact had happened whilst Vettel's wheel was still on or near the white line, then fair enough, but watch how far his left wheel moves right BEFORE the point of impact. Seb's in-car cam, and the front on shot are both dead giveaways. No doubt.
Warren, to quote you "By webber holding his car steady, he was inviting a crash." Do you actually know what you said. By holding a straight line, he is inviting a crash? You fool! In fact nearly everything you said as false as you contravened the FIA regulations and the laws of common sense. It's 'fans' like you that bring this sport down.
It's def 50-50 leaning more towards webber's fault. By webber holding his car steady, he was inviting a crash. If you see any overtaking move in F1, once their side by side, both drivers move to the right towards the racing line for the next turn, with the driver on the inside having the advantage. Exactly the same thing happened with the mclarens! If you notice, Button moved to the right when both where side by side. Vettel was def in the right to push the pair back towards the racing line! So in fact I'll say it was more webber's fault!