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I am very proud of Guam! Love has no gender and I'm glad they acknowledge that.
There are a couple of points that are relevant to any discussion of marriage laws.
1. Civil marriage has nothing to do with any particular religious sect's views on what they refer to as marriage. Civil marriage laws come from an amalgamation of pre-Christian Roman, Celtic, Anglo-Saxon and other sources and they have changed over time. It is a civil contract which defines a legal relationship between two parties. It is completely secular - no religious component is required. An atheist couple can marry just as a religious couple can marry. No minister, priest or rabbi is required at all. In fact if one has a religious ceremony but without the proper civil paperwork the marriage is null and void under the law.
2. Some religious groups view same sex marriage as a sin while others do not. Even some Christian sects have sanctioned same sex marriage while others disagree. Then they squabble over who is or is not a "true" Christian. I do not care nor should the law care what is or is not a "true" Christian, Jew, Muslim, Baha'i, Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist or any other religious sect. This is a matter of religious interpretation and NOT a matter for secular courts to involve themselves in whatsoever.
We could argue about the technicalities of religious rules and scriptural provisions concerning what is or is not a sin. It is easy to toss around words like "abomination" but the fact is that again this is a religious matter not a secular matter. It is easy for anyone to cherry pick gobbets of scripture to support one position or another. We could get into matters of internal and external context concerning those gobbets as to how they are properly interpreted. We could discuss the translation of certain words form ancient Greek or Hebrew as well.
But the fact is that certain religious sects have certain positions on certain "sins". Some religious sects will not allow a person who has been divorced to remarry or will only allow such a person to remarry after a very specific religious exemption has been granted. Some will not permit marriage between people of different religious backgrounds. Some will not recognize marriages between people of different races. Some will only perform marriages for people in their own sect of the religion. They can do that. The Constitution allows them that privilege under the 1st Amendment.
3. But the 1st Amendment provides that no religion is the state religion of this country and that includes Guam. This means that the simple fact that a majority of the people in a given area who might all express a particular religious belief cannot enact laws which deny civil rights to other minority groups in that are i.e. people who do not follow those religious beliefs. In 1943 the US Supreme Court discussed this principle eloquently in a case involving West Virginia which had passed a law which essentially forced all Jehovah Witness children to violate their religious beliefs or be expelled from school. The court said the majority does not have the right to vote on the civil rights of a minority. They said this was a violation of Equal Protection under the 14th Amendment.
In Colorado when certain religious groups managed to pass a law to deny homosexuals the right to petition the government to protect their rights as citizens, the court found that animosity based on a religious belief concerning sin was not valid legal justification for denying homosexuals their civil rights under the US Constitution. When Texas prosecuted homosexuals for engaging in certain sexual acts in private while allowing heterosexuals to engage in the same acts in private, the Court struck down the law saying it violated the right of privacy of any consenting adult.
4. Marriage has been ruled to be a civil right in the United States numerous times over the last 150 years. Laws which forbade people of different race from marrying, laws which forbade married couples from engaging in birth c
The bible is outdated. Let it go and evolve, please. Transcend.
Yes, a 50% divorce rate. I read a study about that a couple of years ago and yes it's true the United States of America has amongst the highest divorce rates in the world, but most alarming... Yes, 50% but the true number that should shock anyone is that out of that rate 90% of those are professing CHRISTIANS.
The Jews, Muslims, Buddhist etc are not divorcing, it's the Christians. Christians stood at the alter of God within their churches and professed their undying love to each other and yet divorce at alarming rates and completely disregard what Jesus said on the subject. I even had a fool the other day tell me that it was okay, because regardless to what Jesus said, Moses said it was okay. (I kid you not.)
Christians have failed at marriage and yet have the nerve to express discontent with people of the same sex wishing to be married. (you couldn't make this stuff up.)
If the Christians wish to save face and their faith, they'd do best to SHUT UP. It would be one thing if Christians were know as stellar people, but they're simply not. How many more Republicans (family Christian values men) have to be involved in scandals before people get it?
There is nothing worse then a man hiding behind the cross in order to fool you into thinking they're honest or moral. If anyone ever tells you "Trust me, I'm a Christian" you should run.
As they say.... the loudest homophobes generally has the largest closets.
You have love these "Christians" who demand that their faith be respected and honored and yell out they want freedom to practice their faith, even if that includes discriminating against God's Gay Children.... but it makes me wonder.... are these Christians only worried about their faith and the freedom to practice or are they worried about ALL faiths?
I don't know, most Christians I have run into are some of the most selfish people on the planet and only care about themselves, but at the end of the day, they're millions upon millions of Americans that belong to mainline churches that would HAPPILY marry same sex couples.
People of faith should be outraged that any government would tell a church who they could or could not marry. My church takes no issue at all marrying same sex couples and does it routinely. Are you saying you want to step in and have the government ban my church from doing that? REALLY?
Who are you to say a single word about my faith or church? Shame on you. You express the desire for freedom of faith and yet try to squash other faiths? Shameful. I can only hope and pray that God will deal with you accordingly one day.
And to George and his bit on Slavery. Honestly... one couldn't get more ignorant. Slavery wouldn't have even existed in the United States if not for the CHRISTIANS. Heck, they even used their bible to support it. The Christians of the South fought and lost a Civil War over the subject. After they lost that war, they moved onto separating blacks from whites in public and used their faith to do it, when they lost that way, they moved onto interracial marriage, where Caucasian Christians marched in Selma carrying their bibles and professed that if a black man were to marry a white woman, it would be an abomination on to the lord. Heck, the KKK is alive and well today preaching this type of hatred. And yet when the Christians lost that battle they moved onto the Gays.... now that the Christians are losing that battle... the Christians have moved on to the Muslims. Where does it end? Maybe it should end with banning Christianity which has caused far more harm than good. Act of Christians over the last two thousand years has been despicable.
History is history and I for one think we should teach the TRUE HISTORY of the Christian faith in our schools. Our Children have the right to know. Speaking of, when I told my children about WWII and Hitler (another devout Christian) my children didn't believe me and ran to their mother asking if I was telling the truth. They were shocked. It must be taught. We must teach our children HISTORY!
The question is... what does your bible have to do with anything?
What two loving adults to in the confinements of their lives is none of your business.
I often think it's amazing how these "Christians" go about saying this or that and even JESUS didn't make a comment on the subject.
Same sex marriages have been around fpr thousands of years before Christian Heterosexual ones. (that's a fact)
Jesus Christ was no fool, Jesus was vocal on issues of his concern. Jesus spoke out on divorce and yet the highest number of divorces worldwide are by Christians. When Jesus walked the earth, same sex marriages were common in the communities where Jesus roamed, again... Jesus was no fool and would have been well aware of the same sex LEGAL marriages being committed within his community and yet said NOTHING, nothing at all. SO it makes me wonder... if the desire is to live a "Christ" driven live and Jesus Christ said nothing at all about the Gay weddings in his community, then why would anyone speak out against them now. Again, Jesus said NOTHING, so why you? DO you think you know better then Jesus Christ?
Yes, God is real and I believe there will be many professing Christians burning in the fires of hell for the evil acts committed against God's Gay children.
Many Christians seem to think they can do whatever they want and at the end of the day ask for forgiveness and it's granted. Don't bet on it. God will hold each and everyone one of us accountable for our deeds on this planet. You wait and see!
Finally, NO ONE is born a Christian. People CHOOSE to be a Christian. Christianity is a LIFESTYLE CHOICE and NO ONE in the United States of America has the right to attempt to force their CHOSEN faith onto another citizen. If for some odd reason you don't believe in Gay marriage... fine, don't have one. But for the millions of others that choose them, that should be their right as an American citizen. Equality for all, or equality for none.
People have some nerve even voicing their opinion. Who is anyone to voice their opinion on how two consenting loving adults live their lives? Would you be happy if people voiced their opinions on YOUR marriage?
Besides, I've yet to meet a Gay person that was a threat to my heterosexual marriage and if you have... than the issue is not with your marriage, it's with YOU.
Some of the most dishonest people I've ever met in my lifetime are those who profess to be Christians.
one more:
To Chuck: Christians expressing their freedom of speech in a public forum does not equate to "shoving our faith down your throat". Christians have every right to express themselves as they see fit, just like everybody else. Anybody who strives to shut down a Christian's right to free expression of their faith in a public forum, is being absolutely INTOLERANT of the Christian's right to free speech and a Christian's legitimate perspective and world view. Never forget that all of our inalienable, human and civil rights, as we know them to be today were first expressed, delineated and protected by institutions deriving from our Judeo-Christian Tradition, of which the Christian Religion played an enormous role in. For this we all owe a debt of tremendous gratitude to the Christian religion with regard to our Freedoms and civil and human rights that we enjoy today. Here's something interesting: at one time, slavery was common worldwide, but the initiative to end slavery once and for all began within the context of the Christian religion, although the whole process to end slavery took a while to accomplish. Nevertheless, Chriatians were responsible for ending slavery in the West and elsewhere where they were able to make it happen around the world. God bless us, one and all!
Gary Kuper, 50% of marriages fail in the United States not because the Traditional heterosexual instition of marriage has failed or is inherently flawed. It's because human beings are flawed and proned to failure. It's like when a driver gets into an accident thru negligence, it's the driver, a human being, who is flawed and at fault, not the car he or she is driving. If traditional marriage is in and of itself the cause of the 50% divorce rate today, what was the divorce rate prior to 1965? It fluctuates but usually less than 25% annually and this is in the era when traditional heterosexual marriages was the only type of marriage that was legal. Besides, please google "is 50% divorce rate accurate?" Iam sure you will love the results. Thank for responding to my comments, Gary. It has definitely been interesting. Over and out and signing off!
God's Word the Bible says its not only wrong, it's an 'abomination' (Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:24-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, etc.) therefore every true Christian knows it is wrong. However it is forgivable just like every other form of sinful behavior (1 Corinthians 6:11) when any repentant person turns to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation and a new life (2 Corinthians 5:17). Thanks. Pastor Tom Larmore / CBF, Guam
Gary Kuper, about the marriages that I have stated and gays. Of course gays arnt illegal, I never said gays are illegal. There is no law against being gay, per se. I am talking about various types of illegal marriages should be legalized, since gay marriage is legal on guam now. "Gay people " and "the institution of marriage" are two different things - apples and oranges.
To Chuck: gay marriages have been occurring long before any heterosexual marriages occurred? Please give your scholarly source for that statement. Thank you.
Mark Lord: thank you for your wonderful comments and your reference to our Judeo-Christian Heritage that built our Western Civilization.
To VA: this not about equal rights? Please look at the flag that Loretta Pangelinan is holding up and the equal sign on the flag - that says it all. But I agree with u in everything u stated, u r correct.
Gary Kuper, I apologize for misspelling your last name. How will gay marriage damage traditional marriage is saying the same as:
- How has legalizing divorce damaged countless young children?
- how has abortion damage the approximately 55,772,000 unborn babies that have been aborted in the US since Roe vs Wade? My point is that the legalizing of divorce and abortion were both seen as a good and a benefit to society yet has been horrendously damaging to countless people. What the impact will the legalization of same-sex marriage will be remains to be seen, but the record of major changes (like abortion and divorce) in our Judeo-Christian society which are diametrically opposed to it's traditions and values, has been absolutely devasting to the fundamental unit of our society - the traditional heterosexual family. Will the legalization of gay marriage damage the traditional family? You better believe it.
Not only is "same sex marriage" wrong, but any sexual relationship between members of the same sex is an "abomination to the LORD", according to the Bible. This was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis chapters 18-19), and that is why God destroyed those cities. Homosexuality is a sin against the laws of nature which God established at Creation. Recently, Bruce Jenner decided to change his sex and even posed as a woman on the cover of Vanity Fair magazine. Isaiah 1:18 says, "'Come now, and let us reason together,' Says the LORD..." Human beings are created "in the image of God". Yes, we are Mammals, but the difference between us and other animals is that we have a consciousness of the existence of the Creator and what is morally right and wrong. NO OTHER ANIMAL IN ALL OF CREATION WOULD CONSIDER CHANGING IT'S OWN SEX OR COHABITING WITH ANOTHER MEMBER OF IT'S OWN SEX, EXCEPT FOR HUMAN BEINGS, which, the Bible says are "fallen" and "sinful".
God does not hate homosexuals. In fact, God loves homosexuals so much "that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."St. John 3:16.
God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. And what our Government's Judicial system has done is approve of and condone a sin which is contrary to the Laws of God found in the Bible.
Any Attorney knows that all the Laws of Western civilization are based on the Laws found in the Bible.
"If the foundations are destroyed, What can the righteous do?" Psalm 11:3
@VA You're wondering why heterosexuals have to give up the term marriage to the LGBT community? Really? See that is what the problem is... it's about education. The facts are facts and it's 2015, you can google anything, there is simply no excuse of not knowing better. But here is a fact. Gay people were marrying LONG before any Christian heterosexual marriages ever occurred. NO one is asking anyone in the heterosexual community to marry someone of the same sex. This should effect you in no way. Personally, I have never met any homosexual that was a threat to my heterosexual marriage. Why are you so concerned? As for any Christian thoughts on the subject. Who are YOU to force your faith on to anyone? It certainly isn't the Governments right to do. Equality for all. That is what America is about and like it or not, Guam is and will always be apart of the United States of America and we Americans stand for FREEDOM for ALL Americans, not just the heterosexual ones.
@George Cotton, This is good, an open dialogue where we can share our views and hopefully come to an understanding, but unfortunately, I don't see us agreeing. I just don't get everyone's argument where gay marriage will destroy traditional marriage or society. As I see it, traditional marriage is already failing around 50%. And with high rates of crime, poverty, suicides, teen pregnancy, high school drop rates, debt, etc..., society is already in trouble, and this has nothing to do with gay marriage.
And based on your argument, "if you legalize something for a particular group than the legalization should apply to all other groups,..." then if traditional marriage is legal, (again based on your argument) why shouldn't gay marriage legal? And a major difference with some of the groups you mention is that it is illegal - being gay isn't.
We are talking about gay marriage and not nuclear weapons?
I am very happy that it is legal. I wish people would be a little more understanding although this is to everyone on GUAM who accepts the LGBTQ community I thought i'd let you all know that if not all of us, I am very appreciative of the people who accept me for who i'm becoming & meant to be. I'm proud of the direction that our island is headed in, we all need to understand that yes that are bad effects to this just like every other situation & suject but there is also good effects as well. That's one thing people close their mind to, yes there is the bad but theres also good in everything. I think out of all of this my true comment is I think people should be more open-minded instead of close-minded. Keep happy & stay happy GUAM!!!! :)
Its about time! NEW DIRECTION!!!!!!
Why is there always a question about equal rights when it is not about equal rights. I want gays and lesbians to be happy with the partner they choose. But why does their relationship have to be called a marriage? Why can't their "relationship" be recognized by government with another name? Why do we have to have a status of a minority change the way of life for the majority? Where is the equality from government (and the citizens who argue about equality for gay marriages) against those who believe that their fundamental freedom of religion will be affected, that they want to live in a world with a clear definition of what a marriage is, and the world they want for their kids to live the values their elders have that a marriage is between a man and a woman? Why is my "equal rights" not being honored? Equal rights is giving "gay marriages" a new category for their relationships and marriage can be honored between a man and a woman. If we have to go down the road of equal rights literally, then you have to literally eliminate our culture, values, ethnic background, and our way of thinking into one. Is that where we are headed? Are we now going to find a way to make all human beings brown, white, black, etc to become one color/race? Let's treat people equally, but don't be destructive by destroying other people's beliefs just for the sake of equality.
Ok Gary Cooper, let's go ahead and delete after-death and pet marriages. I still make my point. I am not pro-gay marriage. I am pro "if you legalize something for a particular group than the legalization should apply to all other groups, otherwise the law would discriminate in favor of the particular group, in this case gay couples who wish to get married. In my previous comments, I was playing the Devil's Advocate, appearing to be pro gay marriage, but actually not.
Does Senator Underwood's Bill 119-33 Guam Marriage Equality Act contain provisions for the legalization of other types of marriages; bigamy, polygamy, etc? If not, why is Sen. Underwood discriminating against current and/or future bigamists, polygamists, etc., on Guam? Would Senator Underwood's Bill 119-33 deny bigamists, polygamists,etc. equal protection under the law? My contention is that legalizing gay marriage on Guam will open a whole variety of cans of worms down the road. Eventually, all types of marriages will be legalized, you name the marriage, you got it. What will be the implications of going down this road? The cheapening and watering down of the institution of marriage and the eventual breakup and subsequent destruction of the Traditional family unit, the fundamental building block of our Western Judeo-Christian Civilization, from which derive the delineation, articulation and preservation of all of our human, civil and inalienable rights.
NO! Keys and locks are made for each other. Keys don't open keys and locks can't be opened without a key. DON'T MISTAKE KEYS FOR KISS!!
I Admit That I'm Gay(Lesbian). I'm Currently In A Relationship With A Girl & I Honestly Don't See Anything Wrong With Supporting Gay Marriage Or Perhaps Gay People. Its Their Life, Their Choice. Were All Human Beings. & Should Be Treated Equally NoMatter The Race, Gender, Or Who They Choose To Be. If The Person Is Happy The Way They Are, Then They Are Happy.
NO way, that's not true god created men and women to married but not women and women or men and men.....
Guams coming out of the Dark??.More like into the Dark...I dont agree...with the choice but the people still I love...
@George Cotton, then it's nice to see you support gay marriage...
@George Cotton, seems like you did just that when you lumped them in with "after death marriage" and "pet owner marriage..."
Gary Kuper,
Don't insult human beings who happen to be polygamists, bygamists, and others who adhere to alternative marriages aside from monogamy and same-sex marriages. They too have a right to equality under the law, just as gay and lesbians do now on Guam. Don't you want these people to exercise their rights to get married, just as monogamists and gays/lesbians do? Polls say that most African-Americans are opposed to gay marriage and that many do not want their ancestors experience with slavery and the Jim crow laws to be associated with the gay rights movement. All I am saying is that there are many types of marriages which are illegal. It's time for Sen. Underwood, Judge Gatewood,etc., in order to be consistent and unhipocritical , to work diligently to give legal status and the recognition of all rights attached to every type of marriage that exists. To not do so would be discriminatory and hypocritical. Gary your statement just as well could have been used, by anti-gay bigots, against gays who desired the legalization of gay marriage back in the 1960's.
I have many friends and relatives who are gay, but marriage is a union between a man and a woman under God's law.
Finally Guam is coming out of the dark! It shows the island is better educated on human rights and now can claim to be civil like the States. Love has no gender.
And I suppose when they gave the "Black Man" the right to vote, someone made the argument that we should also let children, pets, farm animals, aliens, and even women the right to vote too...
Thats great. Now Sen. Underwood, Judge Tydingco-Gatewood and others should fight furiously for the equality of every other type of marriage for the people of Guam; bygamy, polygamy, polygyny,polyandry, open marriage, after-death marriage, pet and owner marriage, marriage for teens who have reach puberty, and every type of marriage that can be conceived of. This is if we are to be consistent in the equality for all citizens under the law. If these types of marriages sound ridiculous, immoral, or insane to anyone then you are being intolerant, oppressive, unprogressive, bigoted and prejudiced, because that's how same sex marriages were viewed back in the 1970's and the decades prior to that, but now same-sex marriage is allowed. So, Senator Underwood, push forth the initiative with all your might and moral strength to allow ALL types of marriages available for Guam's people. If not, then doesn't that make you intolerant, bigoted, and oppressive towards those people who desire those other types of marriages? Sen. Underwood and Judge Tydinco-Gatewood and other same-sex marriage supporters, you must never allow or tolerate a single person or couple to be treated unequally before the law - push for the legalization of ALL types of marriages on the island of Guam!