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Skytrain all the way, And how about some accountability for the 50 MILLION that was spent on WHAT?
There are some greased hands and some explaining to do to the new council and Mayor.
Gord Loney:
You also wrote:
"... anyone who believes the Broadway subway to UBC is not needed is completely out of touch with reality"
In order to meet current and anticipated (2018 to 2032) passenger capacities needs, the frequencies of 99 B Line buses (that currently service this route) could, very simply and very cost effectively** be increased by 100% or 200% by:
- Scheduling 99 B Line buses to travel in pairs and or in threes... thereby doubling (and tripling) the current 99 B Line route's passenger capacities...;
** Cost effective compared to building an $8 billion dollar subway for this route:
----------------------------------
And,
Before any "final" decisions are made to go ahead with the proposed "Broadway Subway",…. it would be in the public interest for all decisions to be deferred until after there has been a 2-year (or longer) trial of a "Bus Rapid Transit" line:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit ,
https://nbrti.org/
… westward (3.4 miles) from Broadway and Commercial in the city of Vancouver to Broadway and Arbutus Street, and (roughly) 5-miles farther- all the way to UBC...
Such a BRT system could be up and running in a matter of months, for a small fraction of the costs of Translink's proposed "Broadway Subway"...
BRT worked well along the city of Richmond's Number 3 Road in the early 2000s, previous to its replacement with the under-built, lacking in capacity**** Canada Line...
****
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-light-rail-skytrain-mistakes-underbuilt
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/short-platforms-and-trains-is-the-skytrain-canada-line-under-built-and-nearing-capacity
https://globalnews.ca/video/3793703/canada-line-skytrain-stations-too-short
https://globalnews.ca/news/3793260/larger-stations-or-more-trains-canada-line-faces-tough-choice-as-demand-increases/
Done right, and with sufficient pragmatic ambition- and open, transparent public communications- city of Vancouver BRT would act to ensure that planning for new and expanded commuter rail lines in all of Metro Vancouver is done competently, and based on current and future (projected) needs, instead of being driven by stale political agendas of some civic politicians (more than a small few of which are soon to be leaving office as a result of Metro Vancouver cities' recent municipal elections)...
Gord Loney:
You wrote:
"... Business owners in Surrey want LRT as they believe it will bring customers..."
Er, No, actually the vast majority of Surrey's, Delta's, the 2 Langleys' and White Rock's business owners DON'T want street-car ("LRT") lines in the South of Fraser sub-region...
While it is true that senior "Surrey Board of Trade" officials have, for almost 2 years, expressed opposition to legitimate rapid-transit (SkyTrain) lines being built in Surrey- these persons don't speak for Delta, the 2 Langleys and White Rock business owners...
And, as the Surrey Board of Trade has NEVER conducted a poll all businesses in Surrey- and asked these businesses' owners, mangers and employees whether their preference is:
A) having a network of SkyTrain lines built in Surrey and its neighboring SOF cities; or
B) having a network of street-car ("LRT") lines built in Surrey and its neighboring SOF cities...
.... then, as a consequence- opinions expressed by senior Surrey Board of Trade officials are NOT legitimately representative of the views of Surrey business owners...
Also, while it may be true that some of Surrey's small, mom and pop business owners may (due to ignorance of economic facts) say that they prefer street-car ("LRT") lines over SkyTrain lines... the motivating factor for their views is likely very similar to the factors that motivated owners of mom and pop market stall owners in New Delhi and Calcutta to say that they are opposed to the establishment of super-markets and Big Box stores (like Superstore, Tesco, Home Depot and Walmart) in these cities and other places in India: small minded self-interest...
If cities in MV's South of Fraser sub-region want to be able to appear (to large, multi-national corporations and banks) as better places to invest and build subsidiaries in- than North of Fraser cities- this won't be possible if SOF mass transit looks like something out of 1912- a puny 11 kilometer long street-car line... while NOF mass transit remains as it is today->>> exponentially better, with nearly 200 kilometers of computer driven LEGITIMATE rapid-transit lines...
Light rail travel time 27 minuets between Newton and Guildford where as 96 B-Line travel time 24 minuets for same distance compare which is faster and to spend almost 1.8 billion by the time it is ready make no sense and B-Line is busy only during morning and evening just increase it frequency during that time problem solved and spend that money on building sky train to Langley which is future
Light rail travel time 27 minuets between Newton and Guildford where as 96 B-Line travel time 24 minuets for same distance compare which is faster and to spend almost 1.8 billion by the time it is ready make no sense and B-Line is busy only during morning and evening just increase it frequency during that time problem solved and spend that money on building sky train to Langley which is future
Aktur,
Are you serious. Your people's hav completely screwed our whole country. Please just go back to India where crooks are acceptable. Forget you play fields. Im so tired of your crooked ways. You are scammers. Abusing the system. You may be an exception my friend but imo. Your people's are effing bad
im really hoping Doug makes a cricket field, I remembered the old days when I played cricket. I felt like a bit of stupid because people's of the world were playing games of man. I'm annoyed because in India the people's will vote for cricket. In India people's are so very smart and that's why I moved to Canadian. I wish to be a big part of getting my part of the funding and monry that I can have
im really hoping Doug makes a cricket field, I remembered the old days when I played cricket. I felt like a bit of stupid because people's of the world were playing games of man. I'm annoyed because in India the people's will vote for cricket. In India people's are so very smart and that's why I moved to Canadian. I wish to be a big part of getting my part of the funding and monry that I can have
Ok- Business owners in Surrey want LRT as they believe it will bring customers. ..however mass transit is for moving the public to their preferred destination & the quicker the better. Doug knows what he is doing and withow the support of Vancouver & Langley mayors- this is a done deal - they will have to come up with more money - but there's lots of that lying around - BTW anyone who believes the Broadway subway to UBC is not needed is completely out of touch with reality - currently more bus riders on that stretch than the Canada line...and UBC swims in cash- but if u r a non believer - just try getting a bus at commercial / Broadway at 8am any weekday over 100,000 daily riders- subway is 20yrs overdue! Check facts before you write laffable fiction - Tell the NDP to get building - man I can't wait to vote them out!
NEEDED: A NETWORK of LEGITIMATE rapid-transit lines in "South of Fraser" sub-region:
a) From Scott Road SkyTrain station west along Scott Road, then south along Scott Road up the hill, and eventually to Scottsdale Mall (with new 100+ meter long platform station built there)... and then east along 64th Avenue (or 72nd Ave) to King George Boulevard...,0 then north along King George Boulevard to King George Station (near city hall);
b) From North Surrey (KG Station) along the Fraser Highway to the 2 Langleys;
The spur of the existing SkyTrain (that parallels KG Boulevard from Scott Road station to King George Station) ... that veers south-west away from KG Boulevard to Gateway Station, Surrey Central Station and ending at King George Station- SHOULD BE REMOVED...
The SkyTrain route should parallel King George Boulevard ALL THE WAY from Scott Road station to King George Station..., with 2 or 3 new stations built adjacent to KG Boulevard between Scott Road station and King George Station (to replace the to-be-closed/ torn down Gateway Station and Surrey Central Station)...
Why??
The current SkyTrain spur route goes over/ through extremely valuable and very high-development potential lands... much of it fields and parking lots...
These lands should be freed up for development... If done, would benefit city and SOF sub-region generally...
----------------------------
Planning for SOF cities' commuter-rail lines should be occurring with officials considering these lines' direct and indirect effects on the eyesore "wasteland" areas of North Surrey that border New Westminster, and how these lines- if built with sufficient ambition- could contribute to and act as catalysts for their comprehensive redevelopment.
For decades, these areas have been off-putting and visually offensive to potential investors and other persons arriving in that part of Surrey from New Westminster...
These areas’ hundreds of acres of offensive-looking scrap metals vendors, wood chips “mountains” and dump yards- many adjacent to the existing Scott Road SkyTrain Station- have long needed to be re-developed so that they don't continue to repel potential investors and new residents, while disgusting Greater Vancouver residents and other persons crossing the Fraser River from New Westminster into Surrey.
Better uses for these incredibly high-potential lands would be hosting University and college campuses; High-tech research and development facilities; Upper market commercial and residential high-rise towers; Sports’ Stadiums; park land, et cetera...
The BC and federal governments should demand that Translink re-thinks all of its proposed commuter-rail mega-projects...
Supporting and enabling South of Fraser cities' economic development and future population growth should be the number one priority...
NEEDED: BC Govt/ Federal Govt and South Of Fraser Cities' Collaborative Mega-project(s)!!
$3 BILLION"BROADWAY SUBWAY" NOT NEEDED!!
FUNDING SHOULD BE TRANSFERRED TO SOF CITIES' COMMUTER RAIL PROJECTS!!
Re the proposed 3.4 mile-long, $3 billion (or at least $8 billion if all the 8.4 miles to UBC) "Broadway Subway" in the city of Vancouver
(Extending the Millennium Line (SkyTrain rapid transit) westward 3.4 miles from Broadway and Clarke to Broadway and Arbutus Street, and 4.5 miles further to UBC):
In order to meet current and anticipated (2018 to 2032) passenger capacities needs, the proposed subway IS NOT NEEDED!!
Instead,
the frequency of 99 B Line buses- that currently service this route- could be substantially increased- easily, and (comparatively) very cheaply...
Frequencies could, very simply and very cost effectively** be increased by 100% or 200% by:
- Scheduling 99 B Line buses to travel in pairs and or in threes... thereby doubling (andtripling) the current 99 B Line route's passenger capacities...;
** Cost effective compared to building an $8 billion dollar subway for this route:
----------------------------------
And,
Before any "final" decisions are made to go ahead with the proposed "Broadway Subway",…. it would be in the public interest for all decisions to be deferred until after there has been a 2-year (or longer) trial of a "Bus Rapid Transit" line:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit ,
https://nbrti.org/
… westward (3.4 miles) from Broadway and Commercial in the city of Vancouver to Broadway and Arbutus Street, and (roughly) 5-miles farther- all the way to UBC...
Such a BRT system could be up and running in a matter of months, for a small fraction of the costs of Translink's proposed "BroadwaySubway"...
All that would be required for a 2-year BRT trial (in city of Vancouver) is a very small amount of dispassionate political effort by municipal and BC govt politicians...
BRT worked well along the city of Richmond's Number 3 Road in the early 2000s, previous to its replacement with the under-built, lacking in capacity Canada Line...
Done right, and with sufficient pragmatic ambition- and open, transparent public communications- city of Vancouver BRT would act to ensure that planning for new and expanded commuter rail lines in all of Metro Vancouver is done competently, and based on current and future (projected) needs, instead of being driven by political agendas of some civic politicians (more than a small few of which are soon to be leaving office as a result of Metro Vancouver cities' recent municipal elections)...
In addition to a NETWORK of LEGITIMATE* rapid-transit lines, Metro Vancouver's South of Fraser cities have long required their own version of North of Fraser cities' "West Coast Express" heavy rail line!!
The BC Govt should, using metaphorical "shotgun diplomacy",... collaborate with MV and Translink to expeditiously facilitate a South Surrey-to-Richmond Rapid Transit feasibility study...
For over 2-decades, such a feasibility study has been needed to establish:
a) The best/ most appropriate technologies for a rapid-transit commuter rail line from South Surrey (the South Surrey Park and Ride), paralleling highway 99 to the Richmond (Bridgeport Station?)
Rapid-transit line study could be in two parts:
Part 1- from the South Surrey Park and Ride to the Town and Country hotel complex (half a mile East of the MT's east entrance, and
Part 2- from the Town and Country hotel complex to one of Richmond's Canada Line rapid-transit stations, such as Bridgeport Station..
b) The likely costs of building a rapid transit commuter rail line from the South Surrey Park and Ride to Richmond;
--------------------------------
* IE: Separated-from-roadway, automated (computer-driven) lines NOT Translink's proposed FAKE rapid-transit street-car ("LRT") lines (in-middle-of-roadway, human-driven, SLOW...
=========================
=========================
MV's South of Fraser cities' new councils should JOINTLY DEMAND equitable treatment from Metro Vancouver, Translink, and the BC and federal governments during the coming 2018- 2022 term, (and an end to the last 2 decades of inappropriate favoritism being shown towards"North of Fraser" cities)!!
As part of FORMALLY COLLABORATING to deal with issues of common concern, SOF cities' new councils should jointly publicly call for an expedited replacement of the Massey Tunnel...
A bridge/ tunnel that is ambitiously designed...
IE: built for the future- with adequate vehicle, and (potential) rapid-transit capacity for the next 40 to 50 years (10 lanes??)
.... And SOF cities' should JOINTLY DEMAND a Govt of BC "guarantee" that tolls will not be re-introduced or instituted on any bridges/ tunnels into the SOF sub-region for at least the next 5-decades!!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/urbansim-metro-vancouver-election-1.4869055
From article:
“Greg Moore, the outgoing mayor of Port Coquitlam and chair of Metro Vancouver, says ...
"… We've been growing for a long time, and what's the smartest way to grow as we move forward?
“To me, that means building density around SkyTrain stations, limiting our urban sprawl, and focusing our growth around new areas in Metro Vancouver," he said..
"That philosophy, shared** by virtually every mayor in the region, is nothing new..."
Hmmm… Then why did Mr Moore and his outgoing Metro Vancouver Board member colleagues make decisions during 2014- 2018 to ARBITRARILY IMPOSE 19th century-technology FAKE rapid-transit street-car (aka “LRT”) lines on MV’s FASTEST GROWING area- the so-called "South of Fraser" sub-region…instead of building a network of LEGITIMATE rapid-transit lines (SkyTrain lines) in the SOF??
Moore and company’s disrespectful-to-the-SOF-public decisions would if implemented- rule out and prohibit building density around SkyTrain stations in South of Fraser cities… and would, in effect, invite and cultivate a continuation of the egregious, economically damaging “urban sprawl” that is prevalent in most SOF cities…
------------------------------------
MV's South of Fraser cities should not be denied the same opportunities as MV’s North Of Fraser cities to economically develop themselves- by establishing "Densification and Economic Development Hubs" that are linked by a network of LEGITIMATE* rapid-transit lines…
* Separated-from-roadway, Computer-driven, RAPID, instead of In-middle-of-roadway, Human-driven, SLOW, street-car ("LRT") lines...
Technologies that are chosen for use by South of Fraser cities (not just Surrey's!!) commuter rail lines should result in SOF cities receiving commuter rail lines that are AS GOOD AS, OR BETTER THAN, the city of Vancouver's and other "North of Fraser" cities' 5 LEGITIMATE rapid-transit lines (Expo Line, Millennium Line, Evergreen Line, and Canada Line... AND the “West Coast Express” heavy rail line…
--------------------------
** Maybe "shared", but NOT equitably implemented!!
=========================
STREET-CAR ("LRT") LINES ARE NOT "RAPID"-TRANSIT LINES!!
The October 12-2017 Surrey/ Translink Memorandum Of Understanding (pgs 7- 12) of this June 07-2018 report to Surrey city council:
https://www.surrey.ca/bylawsandcouncillibrary/CR_2018-R130.pdf :
... does NOT use the term "rapid"-transit network, instead using the term "LRT network"
------
Plainly, as a corrupt tactic to mislead the public:
- between Sept/ October-2017 and March-2018, Surrey and Translink officials began substituting the term "rapid-transit network", for "LRT network"...
... And since March-2018, both Translink and Surrey officials have repeatedly misrepresented their proposed "South of Fraser" street-car ("LRT") lines as "rapid" -transit lines...
Street-car lines are NOT rapid-transit....
The preposterously titled "Surrey Long-Range Rapid Transit Vision" PUBLIC PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN report that was submitted to Surrey city council for their July 23-2018 meeting- provides a cogent example of this "fraud":
https://www.surrey.ca/bylawsandcouncillibrary/CR_2018-R161.pdf (7-pages, 45 misleading, inaccurate mentions of "rapid"-transit in this document)...
TRANSLINK"S ATTEMPTED $1.65 billion dollar SWINDLE WAS REJECTED BY SOUTH OF FRASER CITIES' VOTERS ON OCTOBER 20th!!!
NEEDED: BC GOVT LEADERSHIP... INSTEAD OF SUPPLICANTLY PARROTTING TRANSLINK OFFICIALS!!
NEWS FLASH:
The Federal and BC govt funds that have been committed to Translink's proposed South of Fraser street-car ("LRT") line project... COULD BE USED TO PAY FOR SKYTRAIN LINE(s) instead of street-car lines
The October-2017 Surrey/ Transink “LRT” project Memorandum of Understanding, this June 07-2018 report to Surrey city council:
https://www.surrey.ca/bylawsandcouncillibrary/CR_2018-R130.pdf
... also contains:
- An un-signed copy of a proposed Translink/ Surrey "Supportive Policies Agreement"- Pages 13 to 34;
- An un-signed copy of a proposed Translink/ Surrey "Contribution Agreement"- Pages 39 to 45;
All 3 of the agreements contained in the above linked-to report could be terminated very easily, without ANY costs to either party (Translink and the city of Surrey), and without any direct or indirect costs to the BC and federal governments...
... If the 3 Translink/ Surrey agreements contained in the above linked-to report to Surrey council were voided/ terminated:
... this would leave the grant funding that has been "committed" by the BC and federal govts (for the SOF street car ("LRT") project) where it has been for over 2-years:
->>> just numbers on BC govt/ Govt of Canada spread sheets- with the vast majority of this funding not even collected from tax-payers yet!!...
... and with the rest sitting in interest generating BC govt/federal govt bank accounts... waiting to be disbursed for whatever purposes/ projects that BC govt/ federal govt officials deem appropriate...such as building
LEGITIMATE** rapid-transit lines in South of Fraser cities...
** Separated-from-roadway, automated (computer-driven), RAPID
Well, I just drove along the route of proposed lrt. It's 5:20pm....rush hour.
I counted people at the bus stops along said route. Most almost all stops on both sides were.....empty. Grand total people count at all bus stops combined.....wait for it.........6 people!!! Wow, that 1.6 billion(3 probably) will take a few million years to pay with fares lol!!
If the voters were listened to in the first place, LRT shouldn’t have been an option. You can’t blame McCallum for the money that has already been wasted on LRT. Kudos to him for even suggesting that he will get what the citizens want. LRT will bring nothing but problems. Ex. accidents vs cars and pedestrians, breakdowns in the middle of an intersection, added congestion when portions of the roadways are taken up, etc, etc and etc. I’m fine with waiting 10 more years for a service that makes sense.
Skytrain all the way.
Everything cost money to build.
If municipal taxes increase at least it's money for our community and not for Ottawa where you will never see where it's spent. Go skytrain!!
Amrit Kaur .... lol ! Wow he made more promises than I thought !! Hope you like paying increased municipal taxes !!!
I think MR McCallum is a tired old politician. I think his idea may be fine but the surprise will come when the costs are all in. Things have changed since he departed politics years ago and is in for a rude awakening. I also believe the changing of the police force will blow up in his face. I hope the mayor's council puts him in his place.
Just imagine trying to drive to the major bridges if king George is buggered by construction and then half of it gone with a silly ground level train. I would have to quit my job as I need to travel to north van and there are no ladder racks on lrt or skytrain. I simply have no choice but to drive for work as I must carry my tools. Richmond, vancouver, Coquitlam, Burnaby and surrey are joined by skytrain, it's only fair that Langley and the Fraser valley are part of the plan no? Lrt and no skytrain is selfish and silly. Cost effectiveness is planning for the future. Sooner or later with population growth we must think of the future and the future extends to the Fraser valley, not Newton. Chuck a few more busses at king George, build a skytrain, join communities.....it's just the sensible way to approach our future!
Joy to all!!
You would have to buy more train cars lrt or skytrain, also the skytrain trainyard is at capacity. They would have to increase the size to cover the added cars.
Stretching the truth when it comes to elections is one thing but you can't make up the numbers. Skytrain is not as cost effective as LRT.
Extend sky train to 168 st & other side to Nuton or up to 10 hwy , most populated area here , after 168 st farm start , after 10 hwy farm start , before south surrey
Would like to add to my comment.
Take a drive on king George in the daytime and notice the bus stops are empty....not much demand for transit other than rush hour.
Why would someone from guildford need to go to Newton and vice versa?
Each area has all amenities and services needed. Midtown does as well. I can walk to guildford in an hour, bike there in 15 mins. Would rove to take skytrain to see a giants game in Langley or visit historic fort langley or go for a different shopping experience in Langley or work in Langley etc.
The comments on this page are supposed to be about skytrain and not complaints about other issues. Happiness to all!!
Brian, you are only aware of the promises made by Doug in the main stream. You don't know how many promises he made to the Indian community in Surrey. I am mentioning a few: He said City of Surrey will bear all the expenses of Sikh Parade held in April every year. He said he will make a 'Kabbadi' (Indian Sport) Stadium for Punjabi Community in Surrey. He also made a promise that he will make a cricket stadium for Punjabi Community. He further said that he will make a world class stadium at Bear Creek Park. He said he will spend more money on grass hockey stadium and football grounds. He also said that he will hire more inspectors for the housing approval permits within six weeks. He also said that he will hire more bylaw officers, more police officers and many more. Tom Gill and Bruce Hayne did not make any false promises to get votes. Now we have to suffer for full four years. God bless Surrey for four years.
Looking at the big picture I feel it makes sense to join communities with skytrain. Why join Surrey to Surrey? Join to Langley then aldergrove, Abbotsford, chilliwack. These areas are rapidly developing. Joining communities makes sense. I live in Newton and have no desire to get to guildford in a hurry but imagine if one day I can visit my sister in Abbotsford or go to the river in chilliwack or even take advantage of bieng able to work anywhere in lower mainland and Fraser valley. It's about building with our future in mind. Doug is also planning to slow surrey development and if you lived here you would understand why. Let's spread the development out equally not just in one crime ridden area. Come spend a day in Surrey before casting your vote on this poll! Smile people....we live in the best country on earth, let's do our personal best to keep it that way
Obviously people forgot why they voted McCallum OUT 15 years ago ! Pie in the SKY promises! Wait till tax payers are on the hook for 20 million $ a year for municipal police force without federal subsidized RCMP !
Completely agree with George Anderson. We need to reduce the congestion from Surrey now not after long ten years. Dough is so called 'paaji'of Punjabis and they are not understanding that Doug's promises are unrealistic. So called Indo Canadians often say that Politicians should retire after certain age but here they elected retired Doug, who is very old to understand the current situation. Being an Indo Canadian myself i am failed to understand why double standard.
Doug Mc Cullum is an ugly old politician wanting to kill Surrey and take the city to past days as he remembers it. He never did get over the beating Diana Watts and her councilors put on him when he was Mayor. He did hold the tax line when he was mayor, so now he would like to make up for it by slowing development, getting ride of the RCMP and going to sky train. What a long four years the people of Surrey who believe in our beautiful city have to look forward to.
They have enough cars to service current routes, you add in 20KM of new track, you need to buy new cars to put on it or the whole system end-to-end will get slower. Also, Skytrain may not take up as much road space as LRT, but if its running down KGB or !04th, there has to be columns to support tracks , and those take up space. I'm not a fan of LRT or Skytrain for Surrey. You could just as easily put more buses on the road where LRT runs, turn track lanes into HOV lanes, they both need drivers and a bus can re-route if there is an accident and still move people.
What people are forgetting here is that if they go with Skytrain, they already have the train cars, if they go with street level, they will have to purchase brand new trams so the cost isn't going to be that different and there wont be any traffic congestion. Skytrain all the way.