My daughter owned horses, not race horses but jumpers, I have been going to the races for 50 years. The owners, and trainers love their horses. They know what’s best for their horses. Please let them alone. OH what about PETA they never help anyone. They don’t help any animal foundation. They just destroy animals. Thank you
Henry - 5 years ago
Dorothy, Please see comments from Julie T Byers below. "Lasix is bad for people and for horses". PETA and now many others are taking this as a mantra. As for no parrallel between treating a horse to keep its lungs clear while performing using Lasix, versus a human suffering impaired breathing needing an inhaler, I disagree. The exact same effect takes place on the athlete, which is performance-based suffocation. That is the parrallel. Not treating is not ethical as the duress to the animal is significant.
Dorothy Myers - 5 years ago
I don't think anybody is saying, as Henry alleges, that "Lasix is bad for horses and people." There's also no parallel to inhalers. Most everybody has someone they know who takes Lasix for heart trouble (I do), but nobody is injecting me with it without asking me and nobody is sending me out to race. Horses are a different story because exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage means that the lungs have suffered some torn delicate tissues when under strain. There's a hurricane occurring inside a horse with every stride, air in and out. If a horse bleeds after running, there's been damage. If it's true that horses have been bred with the idea that Lasix is an allowed drug, then maybe it's time to end those horses' racing careers and, perhaps, over time, horses would not be bred who bled during exercise and stress. There's a lot wrong with the breeding that has gone on with Thoroughbreds, breeding for sprinting speed so they can make money as 2-y/o, inbreeding, proliferation of a few bloodlines in both the northern and southern hemispheres. Oh, well, somebody has to make money when they breed horses and racing them at 2 maximizes that.
Suzanne Hurst - 5 years ago
Lasix is basically a diuretic. Would a marathon runner be given a diruetic on the day of a race? I think not. If too much is given, it could be disastrous, especially on hot days.
Henry - 5 years ago
To those who say "Lasix is bad for people and horses" I would recommend you talk to a Vet or a Doctor. That's simply not true and not the supported majority. I have a family member who stayed alive for many years, and otherwise wouldn't have, on the proper dose. As for horses, they also need proper dosages, and that should be aligned by each individual horse, by a vet, not by a non-profit organization or race track operator. Longer timeline to remove the drug completely is acceptable if that is the goal, allowing the current generation of runners to cycle out and not to be put under any duress by running without medication to keep their lungs clear. Can human athletes benefit from asthma inhalers/medications or should we also say that's unethical and let them suffer? Odd to think non-treatment of a lung disorder is an ethical solution.
William Porter Gregory - 5 years ago
Exactly.
William Porter Gregory - 5 years ago
Exactly.
Shelia Jamison - 5 years ago
Yes, for one year. All bleeders must be reported during that year to establish if the lowered dose is adequate in the real world. For this I'm not talking about horses that only scope with blood, but horses that visibly bleed.
Bill Haley - 5 years ago
I know California tracks (and others) run by Stronach have already halved the oasis amount. I think that’s a good start.
Bentley Combs - 5 years ago
restrictions in different states hurts field sizes and participation in the states that restrict them. I train several horses that require more than 5 cc's of lasix and this puts me in a tough spot with owners who want to run in a state where there is a restriction.
Fred Riecke - 5 years ago
So many issues here that have already been commented upon. There should be transparency for the sake of bettors. We need to know who is on reduced dosage. I’m not against an all out ban, but it would need to be done slowly over several years. I’d also like to hear a panel of veterinarians discuss the Lasix issue. That panel should include vets on both side of the coin.
CHRISTINA GINDT - 5 years ago
Each state has its own race day medication allowances.... the general “reduction” question is peculiar to current state allowances.
Terry Ogden - 5 years ago
I think cutting off any treatment, abruptly of any kind could cause more harm than good.
Julie T Byers - 5 years ago
Horses are more important then making money off of them then tossing them away like they're nothing. And that's what running them on Lasix is-no care for long term effects. Lasix is bad for people and for horses.
Bill Heubach - 5 years ago
Generations of horses have been bred in North America under the assumption that they will be able to race with Lasix. There are only a few trainers left who can remember how to train horses without Lasix. I don't think an abrupt, complete ban of Lasix is feasible, particularly with the current horse shortages. However, some North American bred horses have shown they can compete internationally where Lasix is not allowed. My suggestion would be to phase in (e.g., two year-olds the first year, two and three year-olds the next year, all listed and graded stakes maybe three or four years after the first year) a Lasix ban in only listed and graded stakes to give the horse population and trainers time to adjust. I admit I don't really know if we could ever put the genie back in the bottle and have a complete Lasix ban in all races.
don prigo - 5 years ago
Over time this may help the breeding stock as well by having foals who will be less prone to bleeding
David Rose - 5 years ago
I think a lot of people use way too high of a dosage of Lasix most of the time. It should be used diligently on a horse by horse basis. Most that use it don’t need more than 3cc’s
andy mosley - 5 years ago
There needs to be a report and published results from an agreeed upon study. Current data are all over the place.
Jennifer - 5 years ago
I voted yes on the reduction on race day because that has already passed. I’m not voting to go any lower. 5 cc’s is plenty of Lasix in my opinion.
Michael Cardelino - 5 years ago
Only 17 of those actively involved responded to the survey? What are these people in the business for if they care so little about the industry in NY? Shameful!
phil pappalardo - 5 years ago
no wonder this sport is in trouble with only 17 responders.bet you that peta could drum up more.
thanks for your good work.
My daughter owned horses, not race horses but jumpers, I have been going to the races for 50 years. The owners, and trainers love their horses. They know what’s best for their horses. Please let them alone. OH what about PETA they never help anyone. They don’t help any animal foundation. They just destroy animals. Thank you
Dorothy, Please see comments from Julie T Byers below. "Lasix is bad for people and for horses". PETA and now many others are taking this as a mantra. As for no parrallel between treating a horse to keep its lungs clear while performing using Lasix, versus a human suffering impaired breathing needing an inhaler, I disagree. The exact same effect takes place on the athlete, which is performance-based suffocation. That is the parrallel. Not treating is not ethical as the duress to the animal is significant.
I don't think anybody is saying, as Henry alleges, that "Lasix is bad for horses and people." There's also no parallel to inhalers. Most everybody has someone they know who takes Lasix for heart trouble (I do), but nobody is injecting me with it without asking me and nobody is sending me out to race. Horses are a different story because exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage means that the lungs have suffered some torn delicate tissues when under strain. There's a hurricane occurring inside a horse with every stride, air in and out. If a horse bleeds after running, there's been damage. If it's true that horses have been bred with the idea that Lasix is an allowed drug, then maybe it's time to end those horses' racing careers and, perhaps, over time, horses would not be bred who bled during exercise and stress. There's a lot wrong with the breeding that has gone on with Thoroughbreds, breeding for sprinting speed so they can make money as 2-y/o, inbreeding, proliferation of a few bloodlines in both the northern and southern hemispheres. Oh, well, somebody has to make money when they breed horses and racing them at 2 maximizes that.
Lasix is basically a diuretic. Would a marathon runner be given a diruetic on the day of a race? I think not. If too much is given, it could be disastrous, especially on hot days.
To those who say "Lasix is bad for people and horses" I would recommend you talk to a Vet or a Doctor. That's simply not true and not the supported majority. I have a family member who stayed alive for many years, and otherwise wouldn't have, on the proper dose. As for horses, they also need proper dosages, and that should be aligned by each individual horse, by a vet, not by a non-profit organization or race track operator. Longer timeline to remove the drug completely is acceptable if that is the goal, allowing the current generation of runners to cycle out and not to be put under any duress by running without medication to keep their lungs clear. Can human athletes benefit from asthma inhalers/medications or should we also say that's unethical and let them suffer? Odd to think non-treatment of a lung disorder is an ethical solution.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yes, for one year. All bleeders must be reported during that year to establish if the lowered dose is adequate in the real world. For this I'm not talking about horses that only scope with blood, but horses that visibly bleed.
I know California tracks (and others) run by Stronach have already halved the oasis amount. I think that’s a good start.
restrictions in different states hurts field sizes and participation in the states that restrict them. I train several horses that require more than 5 cc's of lasix and this puts me in a tough spot with owners who want to run in a state where there is a restriction.
So many issues here that have already been commented upon. There should be transparency for the sake of bettors. We need to know who is on reduced dosage. I’m not against an all out ban, but it would need to be done slowly over several years. I’d also like to hear a panel of veterinarians discuss the Lasix issue. That panel should include vets on both side of the coin.
Each state has its own race day medication allowances.... the general “reduction” question is peculiar to current state allowances.
I think cutting off any treatment, abruptly of any kind could cause more harm than good.
Horses are more important then making money off of them then tossing them away like they're nothing. And that's what running them on Lasix is-no care for long term effects. Lasix is bad for people and for horses.
Generations of horses have been bred in North America under the assumption that they will be able to race with Lasix. There are only a few trainers left who can remember how to train horses without Lasix. I don't think an abrupt, complete ban of Lasix is feasible, particularly with the current horse shortages. However, some North American bred horses have shown they can compete internationally where Lasix is not allowed. My suggestion would be to phase in (e.g., two year-olds the first year, two and three year-olds the next year, all listed and graded stakes maybe three or four years after the first year) a Lasix ban in only listed and graded stakes to give the horse population and trainers time to adjust. I admit I don't really know if we could ever put the genie back in the bottle and have a complete Lasix ban in all races.
Over time this may help the breeding stock as well by having foals who will be less prone to bleeding
I think a lot of people use way too high of a dosage of Lasix most of the time. It should be used diligently on a horse by horse basis. Most that use it don’t need more than 3cc’s
There needs to be a report and published results from an agreeed upon study. Current data are all over the place.
I voted yes on the reduction on race day because that has already passed. I’m not voting to go any lower. 5 cc’s is plenty of Lasix in my opinion.
Only 17 of those actively involved responded to the survey? What are these people in the business for if they care so little about the industry in NY? Shameful!
no wonder this sport is in trouble with only 17 responders.bet you that peta could drum up more.
thanks for your good work.