Put an * in the record books by their name.
They should have to change their name & uniforms to read the Houston Asterisks for one year so even casual baseball fans will find out they cheated. (Branding them kinda like a scarlet letter). Coaching & management banned for life. Yes they were good enough to beat the Dodgers in game 7, but in my opinion there should have never even been a game 7.
Stan C. - 5 years ago
Put an * in the record books by their name.
They should have to change their name & uniforms to read the Houston Asterisks for one year so even casual baseball fans will find out they cheated. Yes they were good enough to beat the Dodgers in game 7, but in my opinion there should have never even been a game 7.
Blue West - 5 years ago
Vacate the title and return the rings. Losing the WS rings will 100% assure that this never ever happens again in a way that nothing else will.
Do I think Manfred has the coconuts to do it? No. Cheating, lying, and unethical behavior have become too much of an accepted part of our society. We now live in a world where people feel more sorry for the perpetrators than the victims. Too, many people admire cheating as a type of savage, "tough guy" strategy. Yes, it's sick. But look around: it's everywhere.
Mark my words, unless they return the rings, this will happen again. And soon.
David Wol - 5 years ago
One punishment is insufficient. As for hurting other teams which hired those involved in the cheating, you are actually doing those teams a favor - unless they also want to cheat. Ban the Astros from 2020 post season. Let current players transfer to other teams without penalty. The Astros should be punished severely unless MLB wants to encourage cheating by every team in every year.
Mitch Griffin - 5 years ago
Furthermore I disagree with your statement saying “the sad part is the Astros were good enough to beat the dodgers at dodger stadium.” That alone is evidence that you aren’t educated enough on this to make that statement. Their system was much more complicated than people first think. They did this for a whole regular season before getting to the post season, at which you could argue they would have mastered the system by the time October came around- they spent 3 straight games in Houston, they saw every single pitcher the dodgers had in that span, all that footage of signs being decipher for hours by people that are paid to do just that. They had a desk and everything, there is proof! They didn’t need that camera footage after those three games at home, by the time they got back to LA they had switched their methods up- If you do the research you’ll see the Astros bulk-scoring all comes in one-inning, runners while on 2nd base were using distinct whistling, and name-calling strategies. If a breaking pitch was on the way, they would yell the pitchers last name, fast ball they would whistle or yell their first name. You can’t do that if runners aren’t on base, and they never scored any game-securing runs outside of the 4-5 run scoring period. You really have to go in depth to understand how bad this is. The Astros weren’t “Good enough” and that is why they cheated. Thanks but get your facts straight
Mitch Griffin - 5 years ago
1.) Hinch and Luhnow banned for life. 2.) Title Vacated from Astros 3.) Players included in the evidence presented suspended for a year with no pay. 4.) Historic fines, draft picks withheld, death penalty for a year. 5.) Investigation launched into Cora and Red Sox for any cheating in 2018 (you don’t become one of the best teams the Red Sox have seen in history out of nowhere and win the World Series without a doubt in anyone’s mind that they’ll lose Out of No-Where, especially when you come from a team that just cheated their way to a World Series win in the year previous). They need to be made an example of. Cheating sucks and this one is the most egregious in American sports history, drop the hammer down.
Gary Mandell - 5 years ago
Here is a punishment that I can't imagine any city or team should endure, but I think it is appropriate.
For perpetuity the Houston Astros shall only be broadcast by Spectrum (Time Warner) and only a limited amount of people will be able to see the games. Can you image that ever happening to a city.
CaliBoss - 5 years ago
lets be real, MANFRED is the worst commissioner in history....he will do NOTHING.....nothing
CaliBoss - 5 years ago
The title should be stripped! They should be made an example of for the rest of baseball.....the steroid boys and pete rose are all BANNED FOR LIFE...
this is 10000000000000000000000 times worse
Ted Drain - 5 years ago
Any executives, coaches, and players that were part of the cheating that affected any division, league or World Series should be suspended for at least 10 years. This dishonesty affected many lives and careers so the punishment should affect the cheaters for whatever career they have left in baseball. They should be remembered as tainted players of the game.
Larry Paine - 5 years ago
I feel vacating the title and cutting draft picks are appropriate. I do not favor passing it on to the Dodgers is right. I AM a lifelong Dodger fan and I would like our boys to win it “the right way”. Giving the title to LA would be dishonouring the guys that played on the team. They need the joy of that final out! Then are champions up and down the lineup.
Houston should pay like Rose. Maybe MLB should take the franchise away from current owners, dismiss all the front office personnel and parcel out their current team by a lottery (more gambling). oh, they still have to play in Houston.
James Camarillo - 5 years ago
All fans should strongly consider their choice to purchase or not, tickets to games or subscribe to the MLB applications available to out of market fans. Hopefully, the Commissioner will respond to the worldwide fans of Major League Baseball with his investigation and solution on this grave matter.
Larry Picus - 5 years ago
Put an asterisk next to Houston in lists of World Series winners and note they won through cheating. Then the stain for what they did will last forever on all lists of winners of the world series.
Matt Ferrero - 5 years ago
Assuming they stole signs during the postseason, remove the top six rated minor league players from the Astros organization, making them available to the teams the Astros defeated in the 2017 playoffs. If it was regular season only, then have a lottery where these players are assigned to another American League organization. This would be in addition to losing draft picks. That would hit them where it hurts and help compensate the teams that were wronged.
Richard A Goings - 5 years ago
I agree with Harry Teuchert; in regards to the ban on Pete Rose. Even though he shouldn't have been banned, for the "gambling", I think it would "FIT" quite well, on ALL that were associated with the Astros, to have a Lifetime "BAN" from Cooperstown. DON'T even allow their name(s), on any of the "Ballots".
Jimmy - 5 years ago
Give the Astros a choice...
1) Ban from the 2020 postseason
or
2) Give all players on the team the right (if they want it) to become an immediate free agent
Juan R - 5 years ago
1. Put the * on the WS Title - let's all be honest with each other... we all saw the final outcome on the field. Don't have to like it but the Astro*s won the games as they were played (cheated), and those memories are not gone (i.e. USC Trojans during Reggie Bush Years or Penn State games during Joe Paterno years).
2. Take draft picks... All picks from the first 3 rounds for the next 3 years - this will hurt the organization the most as time moves on and they are once again back at the bottom of the barrel in the AL West. Not only that but the players that make it to the Show will be looking to leave since they will know there is no chance to win in Houston.
3. Lifetime bans for all found to be substantially involved in the scheme, maybe not the players that participated but definitely the Ownership/Front Office Management/Field Management that orchestrated the fraud.
4. Monetary fines, which by MLB rules can only be a relatively minimal amount.
The steps above will then punish all involved to the level of true detriment as well as give a big disincentive to any other organizations in the MLB that think/feel it is worth it to take the chance on a minimal punishment for the glory of the Title/Trophy/Rings!
Larry Pratt - 5 years ago
During the Black Sox scandal players found guilty were banned for life. Albeit this was for allegedly throwing games not cheating by stealing signs. Players, coaches and management should have a heavy sword above their head if found offending. The game demands ethics to create fair play among teams and set the example at all levels of the game from youth to Majors. Since lifetime suspension would impact other teams the only way to extract retribution from each individual is to take the title aeay!
Mari - 5 years ago
Fine the Astros 2x the amount they won for winning the Series, which would come to around $60 million, and use it to support homeless children.
Bill Morrissey - 5 years ago
No action taken. Astros keep rings, WS trophy, and playoff shares. Mike Fiers should be suspended the entire season for being a snitch.
Dan in Pasadena - 5 years ago
Vacate the championship, pennant and division titles.
Take their rings - it's the ONLY thing their money can't ever buy.
A HUGE fine, if it doesn't really hurt, it's not going to accomplish anything
Remove all their draft picks for a year
Mike McClaran - 5 years ago
Lifetime Ban for the initiators!!! Set rhe ezample like they did Pete Rose!
Mike McClaran - 5 years ago
Lifetime Ban for the initiators!!! Set rhe ezample like they did Pete Rose!
Mark G. - 5 years ago
As a lifelong Dodgers fan, the initial reaction is the nuclear option, but I don't think that really fits the bill in the long run. Stealing signs is, and has been, a part of the game for a very long time, and it is an acceptable practice (at least, to some degree). Yes, this was going past the line, past the unwritten rules, and in violation of now written rules, but while that does piss me off, it's also not something that can be really addressed very well at this point. The rule(s) it breaks now weren't in place then, which also makes it a bit murky. While I'd love to have that title, I'd bet that not only me but the players would not really appreciate it; titles and the pride they carry are earned on the field. Even if it was given to the team now, it likely wouldn't mean jack; not many would respect it, and many would still see it as belonging to the Astros, regardless. That title will always be tainted now, though, and that is something that the team, and it's fans, will have to deal with; for some, an asterisked title is worse than none at all.
I'm okay with taking picks, I'd say two years for every year that they are found to have been doing this. Houston is a team that relied/relies heavily on it's farm system, and that could be a long-term backbreaker, which I wouldn't feel badly about at all. What's done is done, and you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, but literally making it hurt for years afterward is not a bad thing. I'd also be for lowering their luxury tax threshold for a few years as well; this can be done by a combination of using whatever fines come out of this towards the luxury tax (for example, if fined a total of $25 million, that same amount is how much the threshold is lowered), as well as deciding on how much more it should be lowered. I'd think that $45-50 million total for a few years should be workable. Yes, they could still exceed it, but it will cost them. At that point, I'd imagine that the jobs of those who were involved will be scrutinized, for costing the organization so much, literally and figuratively; while every owner/group wants a title, none of them are likely to want one that is tainted, and that taints their organization as well.
After that, it gets hard; suspending players that are with other teams now is doing more to hurt that new team than Houston, or even that player. Same with coaches. Postseason bans would be a first in baseball that I'm aware of, and I doubt that Manfred has the gumption (or necessary outrage) to do that. A ban on the signing of free agents may create a bigger, unrelated issue, in that it may be charged that doing so limits the market unfairly for free agent players, which could also affect their salaries; I don't think that that is a road that Manfred is willing to travel.
So my heart says "gimme that title, you!", but my head says that it isn't realistic, it almost certainly won't happen, and I probably wouldn't care about it if it did. Make it hurt, but keep it within the organization; the players and coaches involved will eventually be known, and they will face the consequences, be they large or small, wherever they end up.
Harry J Teuchert - 5 years ago
If they let these guys get away with this or give them a slap on the wrist,, then you had better think about Pete Rose who is banned for life. Let's face it Pete gambled but he was betting on his own team. He wasn't trying to manipulate the outcome of any games. The GM and the Manager knew what was happening. They should be banned form baseball.
John Sciurba - 5 years ago
Vacate the 2017 championship. They cannot claim divisional, ALCS or WS championship seasons. Noted in record books... no merchandise sales, no pennant or World Series flags flown at their ballpark.
Suspend everyone involved for 2 years from MLB. Loss of salary... Have it be part of their permanent resume, as steroids with Barry Bonds and everyone else... as gambling on baseball is part of Pete Rose's permanent record.
Mathias - 5 years ago
This kind of behavior has to be stopped at all costs or it will ruin the game. Players involved should be fined 30% of their yearly salary and the team fined 5 million dollars too. Other penalties can include loss of draft picks. I am no longer an Astros fan.
Wayne - 5 years ago
If the use of electronic means to steal signs was forbidden by rule, I'd be in favor of stiff penalties. I'd vote for two forms of punishment: stripping the Astros of draft picks AND suspending individuals who can be shown to have been involved. MLB must make it clear that the use of electronic means to steal signs is beyond going to the limit to win. It crosses the line. Removing draft picks is an easy call. The franchise benefited from cheating, so the franchise should suffer once (if) that cheating is confirmed. I also have no problem punishing individuals known to have been involved. They should not be able to escape sanction simply because they are no longer employed by the team that cheated. They carried out the cheating; they must pay the price. The complicating factor, in my view, comes into play if MLB's rules did not expressly ban the use of electronic means to steal signs. If it was like the steroid thing years ago - frowned upon and not openly acknowledged but not expressly banned - then the Astros should suffer the condemnation of fans who know they violated the spirit of the game to win, but MLB will not have firm justification for official sanctions. And, yes, that means that, if I was a HOF voter, I'd supported the candidacies of players who have obvious HOF numbers but who aren't in the Hall because they are believed to be steroid cheats. Punish for rule-breaking, not for unpopular or even unwise actions.
Rich - 5 years ago
Vacate and ban from 2020 postseason. Both related to where and how the cheating occurred. Loss of WS win is as huge as it gets. Our Dodgers haven’t won since “‘88 as we are painfully reminded year after year. Exclusion from next seasons post play while they still have a contending team is also debilitating. No need to kill the Astros with other punishment. This punishment fits THIS crime. They’ll remember this punishment forever. Fans remember everything and they will too.
James Camarillo - 5 years ago
Throw the book at them!
Do it all !
How do we not know that this was tied to well.....gambling or other unknown personal financial gain!
Investigate, and kick all out of baseball.
What’s next, bionic vision for players. Stop the next generation of players tempted to take cheating short cuts.
Steroids, electronics.... what’s next! Make a statement for the wrongs and a stern blast for the future participants.
Pissed!
Jim
Carl - 5 years ago
I say do nothing. Baseball never forgets. Believe me - Dodger, Red Sox and Yankee fans will never let this one be forgotten. The stain will never leave them, and that is punishment enough. I do feel bad for future prospects and future managers that have to inherit this legacy (and this is their legacy). As a life long Dodger fan I am not only angry, however I am sad. As a baseball fan I am devastated that some of the games’ greatest and talented players may be involved. I am a fan of Jose Altuve and Alex Bergman. Even if they didn’t participate, they are still culpable. No matter what, nobody wins in this scenario.
John B Metcalfe - 5 years ago
Loss of draft choices for 1 year, suspension of those found to be involved for up to 1 year, and a fine of 30 million dollars. Make it hurt.
Jerry - 5 years ago
This is just the tip of the Asteriskos level of cheating. Verlander, Cole, Morton, et al have seen big increases in velocity since coming to Houston. Minute Maid Juice, indeed.
Fritz - 5 years ago
Take away draft picks and diminish ability to sign international players. If Fiers knew, then likely entire team could be implicated, so the organization should be fined, as well as every manager, coach, player and other personnel aware of the scheme.
David Ramey - 5 years ago
Take away top 2-3 draft picks for as many as 5 years, splitting the picks among the Dodgers and, IF they are found to have cheated in the AL playoffs, the AL teams the Astros played in the 2017 post-season. Also, a huge fine that goes against the salary cap so should they want to sign FAs, they will have to go above the tax level. Hit them with this for 2-3 years.
While having a baserunner at 2nd base attempting to steal signs is not prohibited (although some might say that is wrong), using electronics is clearly against the rules and the Astros should be penalized severely as it led them to a World Series title.
But at the same time, I'm sure Dave Roberts' strategy and in-game managing, especially as it relates to pitching, may have eliminated the need for the Astros to cheat.
Don Miller - 5 years ago
How sad! Not in BASEBALL.....not in America's game. I'm a Dodgers fan from the 50's but have always kind of pulled for the Astros because I thought they were a good and decent organization. I was so wrong!! The title should be vacated or at least always be accompanied by an asterisk with an explanation that they cheated to win it. The organization should be fined (a lot) and the money go toward building little league baseball diamonds, but not in the Houston area. They should forfeit draft picks and be banned from signing free agents for 3 years.
Whatever happens, it needs to hurt them badly....just like they hurt our sport!!!!!
Dedie Plasencia - 5 years ago
I agree with most of your suggestions Houston. I also agree with most of the comments. It has to hit them where it hurts. No draft picks and no free agent signing for 5 years instead of 1 or 2 years. Vacate World Series title, no Post Season in 2020 and punish all known offenders. It seems harsh but it gets the message across. The biggest losers here are not us Dodgers fans but Astro fans. Another option would be to fine the owners enough money and have the money go to pay for every Houston fan that goes to a home game in 2020. Thanks Houston.
Phil Erickson - 5 years ago
Vacate the title, suspend those involved where ever they are and take away draft picks for 2 or 3 years.
If the punishment is not severe, baseball is closing their eyes to a crime that had a terrible effect on teams and individuals!
Alan J Spatt - 5 years ago
If the punishment isn't harsh enough, then don't bother doing anything! To really get the point across that any form of cheating won't be tolerated, have the current owners sell the team. If that can't be done, then the team forfeits draft picks for at least 3 years, at least $25,000,000.00 in fines, The manager and GM and any coaches involved should be banned for life plus any player personal suspended for at least one year. Finally MLB, should prevent any awards for example, Cy Young, MVP, etc, be awarded to any Astro player for at least two years and definitely no entry into the Hall of Fame. A written explanation that is placed in the Hall of Fame with the reasons why these punishments were administered so any sport fans visiting that Hallowed institution will know that cheating will not be tolerated and what the consequences will be if you do!!!
Bob Hopkins - 5 years ago
It would most likely not be possible to take away their championship and give to the Dodgers, too much time has gone by and little hard to celebrate now! People always try an take advantage of the game an get an edge, from the field it's done daily not a problem. Using devices electrically is not legal and should be banned and sever punishment should be associated with team and players. The team was awful before many draft picks for years, send them back to the dark ages.. No draft picks, HUGE FINE!! Give the money to some deserving charity, church, organization. Help people in need. Have MLB investigate them and the stadium before each game, that would be an embarrassment. Definitely put an * next to the 2017 season championship. Make them look bad as can be and have them under MLB investigation for minimum 5 years. Certainly they should be in last place by end of some suspension as well, have them go through a whole new re-build process.
Nancy Clark - 5 years ago
It's hard to think of a punishment severe enough to set an example to discourage any team in the future from even thinking of cheating. The title should be forfeited and the trophy surrendered publicly with apologies. Fines and suspensions are due to all individuals involved. It's too bad that now other teams will be affected. PS Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame because of what he accomplished as a player not because he was stupid when he retired.
Craig Nagasugi - 5 years ago
The 2017 title goes to the Dodgers. You say doing that would punish the other AL teams. Well, the Astros were representing the AL, so the AL would lose the title. You have a concern about banning the Atros from postseason play as this would vacate the 162 game regular season games. If you are in a game 7 scenario, in the WS, it DOES boil down to only ONE game, regardless of what you did during the season. While you cannot punish players and coaches who are now with other teams but by reclaiming the title and awarding it to the team that did not cheat is only appropriate. Believe me, the players and coaches involved would feel it no matter what team they are with now.
L. John Miller - 5 years ago
Series Title vacated. Franchise sold. Players banned. Send America a message about right VS wrong.
L. John Miller - 5 years ago
Series Title vacated. Franchise sold. Players banned. Send America a message about right VS wrong.
J E Garrett - 5 years ago
Yu Darvish especially pitched well earlier in the playoffs. Clayton Kershaw too. It is really criminal what the 2017 World Series did to their legacies. It cost Darvish millions in free agency. What do you do to criminals who perpetrate such crimes? No punishment is too severe.
Consider also the damage and doubt inflicted on the game. Makes me question if the Nationals knew what pitches might be coming from Kershaw. That was too bizarre.
Cindy Bisgard - 5 years ago
The Astros World Series title should be taken away and the trophy taken back too. You cannot reward cheating. They deserve this punishment. If you cheat in the Olympics you are stripped of your medal and sometimes banned so stripping the title and no trophy should be just punishment for the Cheatstros!
GM - 5 years ago
They should be stripped of the 2017 WS title. Period. Losing draft picks, charity work and fines are a slap on the wrist. Their players should be banned for life. If Pete Rose can be banned for betting on games, Astro players should be banned for cheating. If some are on other teams, too bad. If the Red Sox lose Alex Cora, well, the fault lies with Alex Cora. These guys are supposed to be professionals.
David Croonquist - 5 years ago
In addition to vacating title, imposing fines and losing potential free agent picks, force the Astros during all 2020 home games to play “Your Lyin’ Eyes” during the 7th inning stretch. It’s a start.
David Ewing - 5 years ago
Take away their draft picks, all of them, for years. Take away their right to sign international players. Do whatever it takes to teach other clubs that cheating is simply not worth it. MLB should also investigate if other teams are doing or have done the same thing.
Eugene - 5 years ago
Punishment has to be severe, if the GM of the Braves can be banned for life, Astros GM and manager deserve the same fate. I also would take away draft picks and fine them the highest amount allowed.
Worst part of the whole thing is what happened to Yu Darvish and Kershaw as a result of games 3 and 5. Both pitchers were red hot before going to Houston and inexplicably Darvish forgot how to pitch and Kershaw after very dominant game 1 gave up huge hits in game 5.
I have lost any respect that I had for the Astros players and their entire organization. MLB needs to punish them in a way where it will hurt and send a message to all the other teams that cheating will not be tolerated.
David Croonquist - 5 years ago
In addition to vacating title, imposing fines and losing potential draft picks, force the Astros during all 2000 home games to play “Your Lyin’ Eyes” during the 7th inning stretch. It’s a start.
DAVID NATHAN - 5 years ago
DOES MANFRED HAVE THE BALLS TO LEVY SEVERE PUNISHMENT ? PROB NOT . HE ONLY CARES ABOUT LENGTH OF TIME OF BALLGAMES. HE IS DESTROYING THE SACRED GAME AND PASTIME TENS OF MILLIONS OF FOLKS HAVE ENDEARED THEMSELVES TO FOR 125 YEARS. LEAVE THE GAME ALONE FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE. IT IS CRITICAL THAT MLB PUNISHES THOSE INVOLVED (PLAYERS,MGR COACHES/EXECS) TO THE EXTREME BOTH FINANCIALLY AND BY REMOVAL OF LCS , W.S TITLES . INCLUDING EXCLUSION OF ANY 2020 POST SEASON INVOLVEMENT , AND EXCLUDING PARTICIPATION IN THE DRAFT FOR 3 YEARS. WAKE UP MANFRED ! DO THE RIGHT THING. AND RESIGN WHILE YOU'RE AT IT.
Daniel Vargas - 5 years ago
I think if you are going to suspend everyone involved, might as well suspend the team from competing for one season, including those on other teams. the main ones as well whether they are on other teams as well, make them return the earnings and a stiff fine individually. go through whatever it takes to send the message, just like they did to win a championship.
Moses Mora - 5 years ago
Asterisks are about as severe as Major League Baseball gets once the deed is done. If, say, an umpire noticed during a game that may be different. Think of the Steroid Era of MLB, rarely has an award been taken away. Bonds and Ryan Braun come immediately to mind for me. Braun has perpetually wide-opened eyes as a result of steroids. The Astros organization ought to purge themselves of all players and management involved.
P.S. Pete Rose should be in the MLB Hall of Fame.
John Whitmore - 5 years ago
Houston claims the thrill is in the moment you win the title. The Astros and their fans will always have the thrill of that moment no matter what. The Dodgers and their fans won’t get that moment. Make the Astros take a walk of shame and take their title away. They will no longer be able to claim that they have won one WS title. Also, ban the management team for life, regardless of the team they are currently on. They knew what was going on and went along with it regardless. Shows no moral character. Players go along with things because the management tell them to, and if they aren't superstars, then if they don't follow orders, they will be out of a job. And hit the owners in the pocketbook. It is the only thing they understand. Also make management make amends by making them do positive things for baseball in the community, build fields, give free clinics, ... but make sure that it is supervised.
Ray Ross - 5 years ago
This type of team lead systemic cheating must significantly be punished. Arguably worse than the Black Sox scandal, as knowledge had to be everywhere, right up to the top. Strip first 3 rounds of draft picks for 5 years. Then fine the Astros organization a huge sum of money. An amount that is actually painful for the organization. Then, take a large portion (if not all) of that money and distribute it to the players that were on the opposing rosters. You could do it incrementally. 50% to World Series, 30% to ALCS, 20% ALDS; or some logical formula. I imagine most top paid players will donate the money to various charities. That’s their choice. But I think there has to be some trickle down compensation for this. Plus an actual league imposed asterisk on the Title. I hate cheaters.
Marty Perry - 5 years ago
Stealing signs by the Astros?
What about D’backs. Almost everyone of their players has a higher batting avg at home
Watch their batters even the body language is different. Back in 1996 hideo Nomo started against them and mike
Piazza , the catcher , changed signs every inning
What happened?
Nomo pitched a No No!
Jazzy - 5 years ago
I would fine all the players involved a whole years salary. Make it hurt! A $50,000 dollar fine is a slap on the wrist for pro players. The money then gets spread out to each team they cheated against, and that team gets to donate the funds to a charity. They also lose the 2017 Championship. (No winner that year).
John Fitzgibbons - 5 years ago
In baseball the owners run everything. So fine the Astro owners $100,000,000 (or the approximate value of winning the WS) and split it among all the teams in proportion to their annual budget.
Bob Jackman - 5 years ago
I'm heart broken. I'm a lifelong Dodger fan and to have this happen is absolutely disgusting. EVERYONE in the Houston dugout had to be aware of what was going on. Therefore, EVERYONE must be suspended and their stats MUST be asterisked. The great Jose Altuve (My previous personal hero) is no longer the biggest man in baseball. Every Astro is now untouchable as none of them can be trusted! Lifetime bans for the management team and forced sale of the team by the ownership. Suspensions for ALL players, whether they are still on the Astros. or not. Guilt by association must be assumed at the very least. This is so much worse than if we were to learn that the moon landings were faked! Houston, you are the worst city in the USA! We should figure out a way to make the whole city of Houston fall into the ocean. Let it sink to the bottom of the Caribbean Sea. Outside of the 12 mile continental limit, of course, so that they can all cheat and gamble and do whatever the Hell else, free of the laws and rules of the USA and of MLB. Alex Cora, as manager of the Red Sox, beat the Dodgers in 2018. There needs to be a full investigation into the practices of the 2018 Red Sox because of his participation in the ILLEGAL cheating in 2017 with the Astros. These people are the lowest of all human life forms. If the MLB doesn't clean house of the cheating thoroughly this will be the turning point of Baseball. Many, many fans will stop being fans. We'll end up doing household chores instead of watching or going to games. A great depression would fall upon the entire country, maybe the world. Soccer would take the place of Baseball as the great American pastime. What a terrible future that would be! Just kill me now.
Gerard Capra - 5 years ago
This goes far beyond who may or may not have won the division, championship and World Series.. What about players on other teams who lost awards to Astro players affecting salary bonuses. Pitchers who were hit harder than they should have been, losing bonuses. How much is a World Series title worth in compensation to players and teams. Worse yet, how many people lost money betting against the Astros or for other teams throughout the year. The fines and penalties need to be substantial.
Mark - 5 years ago
The entire Astros team should be suspended for 2020. Players who were not involved, if any, are freed from their contracts and become automatic free agents. Those who were involved have to sit out the season. Doesn’t matter if they are now on a different team. If the new team paid anything to the Astros for the player, the Astros must pay it back, regardless of whether it is money, picks or players.
Bob Bell - 5 years ago
Houston makes several good points about why suspending players (and possibly front office staff) is problematical. Any 2017 FO staff still with the Astros could be liable for suspension. But I think the best, or at least most workable, solution would be losing draft choices and having their luxury tax threshold lowered.
Allen - 5 years ago
My thoughts...
*Take the WS Title away.
*Take draft picks away for 3 years.
*Ban them from the post season for 3 years.
*No free agent signings for 3 years.
Will Beall - 5 years ago
I think none of these punishments would deter the cheating. Lose some picks? In exchange for a World Championship? What organization wouldn't gladly make that deal? It's like the absurd steroid punishments. 75 games-April to June. Then come back and use your pumped up body to contribute to a playoff run. Who does that deter? And that's only if you're caught!
You have to find a punishment that actually makes a team think twice about cheating. Like, maybe, money. Lot's and lots of money-millions, maybe tens of millions. That's the only thing that might deter the Houston ownership from permitting this. Even vacating the title wouldn't deter the players and coaches-they would still know they won.
And what the heck does "Astros cooperating with the investigation" even mean? Cooperating means admitting. They know what they did.
Tom Maxey - 5 years ago
Ban the Top Executives that sanctioned the Cheating (GM ?) and all the executives and managers involved. If its Cora tough if you do the crime you have to do the time. Also take away top draft choices for several years. The penalty must be a strong deterrent or it is not effective.
bob kinoshita - 5 years ago
first, the title should be vacated, without a doubt. after that, maybe a large fine payable to youth baseball programs
or other worthy causes, and forfeiture of draft picks--maybe first 5 picks for a year, or maybe 1st round picks for 5 years
Let Justice be done. Use Pete Rose's case as a benchmark. Investigate thorough to find ALL those responsible in the entire Astros hierarchy. Hold them accountable with banishment and fines like Rose. Remember, Pete did do his time in prison. Let's give him credit for that. ALL the Astros players had to have been aware of this system and its illegality. Fines to each are appropriate which would be their punishment and payment and free them to go on. Suggested fees would be each players' share of both play-offs (Red Sox and Yankees series) and World Series shares. ALSO, other MLB teams may have had their own ILLEGAL means of stealing signs. It would be a travesty to the Great Game if there is only a 'hands slapping!" penalty
larry - 5 years ago
Draft picks are always a crap shoot. So I don't that would be to much of a deterent. But banning them from the 2020 post season is interesting because they and their fans will be reminded they cheated and got caught for an entire season. Plus vacating the World Series Championship goes without saying.
Doug Brown - 5 years ago
A large fine; suspension for the owner and GM; and draft pick forfeiture should be imposed. Perhaps the Astros #1 pick should be awarded to the Dodgers; #2 pick to the Yankees--the teams the Astros defeated in 2017.
bob inouye - 5 years ago
The team should be banned for two years from post season play, plus any personel involve that went to other
clubs should also be banned. The world series title should have an asterisk indicating cheating.
Howard Herman - 5 years ago
Astros should be stripped of their title lose draft picks for 2 or 3 years and execs manager and coaches should b suspended for various lengths of time
Jo Branson - 5 years ago
The punishment should be so potent that no team should ever consider even think about trying it. The reputation of baseball is on the line.
Greg Conley - 5 years ago
Vacate the World Series title, ban the Astros and all other teams from any references to an Astros championship, and ban them from post season play in 2020. Less punishment encourages cheating as a cost of doing business.
Ted Andrews - 5 years ago
I’d like to see a public admission of guilt along with a series of punishments like hefty fines and charity work
Blur - 5 years ago
So sad to hear this. Astros and those involved should be punished. If they do nothing and someone else cheats , they will use it as a excuse. ( “Astros did it why can’t we”.) Need to set a example now. Astros don’t deserve to be Champions.
M Choi - 5 years ago
Need to send a strong message to the baseball community... Pete Rose was banned for life for gambling... Cheating in the game is unacceptable. Need to sanction the Astros with taking away draft picks for the next 3-5 years, year-long suspensions for coaches and front office staff involved, fines and of course, vacate the 2017 championship...
Brian R. - 5 years ago
GM and Head Coach are banned for life
Any player or other coaching staff to receive 30-90 game suspensions in 2020 depending on level of involvement
Fines of course
Take away draft picks for next 3 years
Ban anyone found guilty from every being inducted into Hall of Fame
Dave Kiffer - 5 years ago
Given the other issues swirling around the Astros perhaps Luhnow should take the fall? Fat chance, they’ll find another assistant deputy GM in charge of field maintenance to sacrifice.
PAUL POPOFF - 5 years ago
I HATE CHEATERS,THE ASTROS SHOULD BE PUNISHED SEVERELY,THEIR TITLE WILL BE FOREVER TAINTED,THE DODGERS STILL HAVE THEIR INTEGRITY AND GOOD REPUTATION,MAYBE 2020 WILL FINALLY BE OUR YEAR
Put an * in the record books by their name.
They should have to change their name & uniforms to read the Houston Asterisks for one year so even casual baseball fans will find out they cheated. (Branding them kinda like a scarlet letter). Coaching & management banned for life. Yes they were good enough to beat the Dodgers in game 7, but in my opinion there should have never even been a game 7.
Put an * in the record books by their name.
They should have to change their name & uniforms to read the Houston Asterisks for one year so even casual baseball fans will find out they cheated. Yes they were good enough to beat the Dodgers in game 7, but in my opinion there should have never even been a game 7.
Vacate the title and return the rings. Losing the WS rings will 100% assure that this never ever happens again in a way that nothing else will.
Do I think Manfred has the coconuts to do it? No. Cheating, lying, and unethical behavior have become too much of an accepted part of our society. We now live in a world where people feel more sorry for the perpetrators than the victims. Too, many people admire cheating as a type of savage, "tough guy" strategy. Yes, it's sick. But look around: it's everywhere.
Mark my words, unless they return the rings, this will happen again. And soon.
One punishment is insufficient. As for hurting other teams which hired those involved in the cheating, you are actually doing those teams a favor - unless they also want to cheat. Ban the Astros from 2020 post season. Let current players transfer to other teams without penalty. The Astros should be punished severely unless MLB wants to encourage cheating by every team in every year.
Furthermore I disagree with your statement saying “the sad part is the Astros were good enough to beat the dodgers at dodger stadium.” That alone is evidence that you aren’t educated enough on this to make that statement. Their system was much more complicated than people first think. They did this for a whole regular season before getting to the post season, at which you could argue they would have mastered the system by the time October came around- they spent 3 straight games in Houston, they saw every single pitcher the dodgers had in that span, all that footage of signs being decipher for hours by people that are paid to do just that. They had a desk and everything, there is proof! They didn’t need that camera footage after those three games at home, by the time they got back to LA they had switched their methods up- If you do the research you’ll see the Astros bulk-scoring all comes in one-inning, runners while on 2nd base were using distinct whistling, and name-calling strategies. If a breaking pitch was on the way, they would yell the pitchers last name, fast ball they would whistle or yell their first name. You can’t do that if runners aren’t on base, and they never scored any game-securing runs outside of the 4-5 run scoring period. You really have to go in depth to understand how bad this is. The Astros weren’t “Good enough” and that is why they cheated. Thanks but get your facts straight
1.) Hinch and Luhnow banned for life. 2.) Title Vacated from Astros 3.) Players included in the evidence presented suspended for a year with no pay. 4.) Historic fines, draft picks withheld, death penalty for a year. 5.) Investigation launched into Cora and Red Sox for any cheating in 2018 (you don’t become one of the best teams the Red Sox have seen in history out of nowhere and win the World Series without a doubt in anyone’s mind that they’ll lose Out of No-Where, especially when you come from a team that just cheated their way to a World Series win in the year previous). They need to be made an example of. Cheating sucks and this one is the most egregious in American sports history, drop the hammer down.
Here is a punishment that I can't imagine any city or team should endure, but I think it is appropriate.
For perpetuity the Houston Astros shall only be broadcast by Spectrum (Time Warner) and only a limited amount of people will be able to see the games. Can you image that ever happening to a city.
lets be real, MANFRED is the worst commissioner in history....he will do NOTHING.....nothing
The title should be stripped! They should be made an example of for the rest of baseball.....the steroid boys and pete rose are all BANNED FOR LIFE...
this is 10000000000000000000000 times worse
Any executives, coaches, and players that were part of the cheating that affected any division, league or World Series should be suspended for at least 10 years. This dishonesty affected many lives and careers so the punishment should affect the cheaters for whatever career they have left in baseball. They should be remembered as tainted players of the game.
I feel vacating the title and cutting draft picks are appropriate. I do not favor passing it on to the Dodgers is right. I AM a lifelong Dodger fan and I would like our boys to win it “the right way”. Giving the title to LA would be dishonouring the guys that played on the team. They need the joy of that final out! Then are champions up and down the lineup.
Houston should pay like Rose. Maybe MLB should take the franchise away from current owners, dismiss all the front office personnel and parcel out their current team by a lottery (more gambling). oh, they still have to play in Houston.
All fans should strongly consider their choice to purchase or not, tickets to games or subscribe to the MLB applications available to out of market fans. Hopefully, the Commissioner will respond to the worldwide fans of Major League Baseball with his investigation and solution on this grave matter.
Put an asterisk next to Houston in lists of World Series winners and note they won through cheating. Then the stain for what they did will last forever on all lists of winners of the world series.
Assuming they stole signs during the postseason, remove the top six rated minor league players from the Astros organization, making them available to the teams the Astros defeated in the 2017 playoffs. If it was regular season only, then have a lottery where these players are assigned to another American League organization. This would be in addition to losing draft picks. That would hit them where it hurts and help compensate the teams that were wronged.
I agree with Harry Teuchert; in regards to the ban on Pete Rose. Even though he shouldn't have been banned, for the "gambling", I think it would "FIT" quite well, on ALL that were associated with the Astros, to have a Lifetime "BAN" from Cooperstown. DON'T even allow their name(s), on any of the "Ballots".
Give the Astros a choice...
1) Ban from the 2020 postseason
or
2) Give all players on the team the right (if they want it) to become an immediate free agent
1. Put the * on the WS Title - let's all be honest with each other... we all saw the final outcome on the field. Don't have to like it but the Astro*s won the games as they were played (cheated), and those memories are not gone (i.e. USC Trojans during Reggie Bush Years or Penn State games during Joe Paterno years).
2. Take draft picks... All picks from the first 3 rounds for the next 3 years - this will hurt the organization the most as time moves on and they are once again back at the bottom of the barrel in the AL West. Not only that but the players that make it to the Show will be looking to leave since they will know there is no chance to win in Houston.
3. Lifetime bans for all found to be substantially involved in the scheme, maybe not the players that participated but definitely the Ownership/Front Office Management/Field Management that orchestrated the fraud.
4. Monetary fines, which by MLB rules can only be a relatively minimal amount.
The steps above will then punish all involved to the level of true detriment as well as give a big disincentive to any other organizations in the MLB that think/feel it is worth it to take the chance on a minimal punishment for the glory of the Title/Trophy/Rings!
During the Black Sox scandal players found guilty were banned for life. Albeit this was for allegedly throwing games not cheating by stealing signs. Players, coaches and management should have a heavy sword above their head if found offending. The game demands ethics to create fair play among teams and set the example at all levels of the game from youth to Majors. Since lifetime suspension would impact other teams the only way to extract retribution from each individual is to take the title aeay!
Fine the Astros 2x the amount they won for winning the Series, which would come to around $60 million, and use it to support homeless children.
No action taken. Astros keep rings, WS trophy, and playoff shares. Mike Fiers should be suspended the entire season for being a snitch.
Vacate the championship, pennant and division titles.
Take their rings - it's the ONLY thing their money can't ever buy.
A HUGE fine, if it doesn't really hurt, it's not going to accomplish anything
Remove all their draft picks for a year
Lifetime Ban for the initiators!!! Set rhe ezample like they did Pete Rose!
Lifetime Ban for the initiators!!! Set rhe ezample like they did Pete Rose!
As a lifelong Dodgers fan, the initial reaction is the nuclear option, but I don't think that really fits the bill in the long run. Stealing signs is, and has been, a part of the game for a very long time, and it is an acceptable practice (at least, to some degree). Yes, this was going past the line, past the unwritten rules, and in violation of now written rules, but while that does piss me off, it's also not something that can be really addressed very well at this point. The rule(s) it breaks now weren't in place then, which also makes it a bit murky. While I'd love to have that title, I'd bet that not only me but the players would not really appreciate it; titles and the pride they carry are earned on the field. Even if it was given to the team now, it likely wouldn't mean jack; not many would respect it, and many would still see it as belonging to the Astros, regardless. That title will always be tainted now, though, and that is something that the team, and it's fans, will have to deal with; for some, an asterisked title is worse than none at all.
I'm okay with taking picks, I'd say two years for every year that they are found to have been doing this. Houston is a team that relied/relies heavily on it's farm system, and that could be a long-term backbreaker, which I wouldn't feel badly about at all. What's done is done, and you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, but literally making it hurt for years afterward is not a bad thing. I'd also be for lowering their luxury tax threshold for a few years as well; this can be done by a combination of using whatever fines come out of this towards the luxury tax (for example, if fined a total of $25 million, that same amount is how much the threshold is lowered), as well as deciding on how much more it should be lowered. I'd think that $45-50 million total for a few years should be workable. Yes, they could still exceed it, but it will cost them. At that point, I'd imagine that the jobs of those who were involved will be scrutinized, for costing the organization so much, literally and figuratively; while every owner/group wants a title, none of them are likely to want one that is tainted, and that taints their organization as well.
After that, it gets hard; suspending players that are with other teams now is doing more to hurt that new team than Houston, or even that player. Same with coaches. Postseason bans would be a first in baseball that I'm aware of, and I doubt that Manfred has the gumption (or necessary outrage) to do that. A ban on the signing of free agents may create a bigger, unrelated issue, in that it may be charged that doing so limits the market unfairly for free agent players, which could also affect their salaries; I don't think that that is a road that Manfred is willing to travel.
So my heart says "gimme that title, you!", but my head says that it isn't realistic, it almost certainly won't happen, and I probably wouldn't care about it if it did. Make it hurt, but keep it within the organization; the players and coaches involved will eventually be known, and they will face the consequences, be they large or small, wherever they end up.
If they let these guys get away with this or give them a slap on the wrist,, then you had better think about Pete Rose who is banned for life. Let's face it Pete gambled but he was betting on his own team. He wasn't trying to manipulate the outcome of any games. The GM and the Manager knew what was happening. They should be banned form baseball.
Vacate the 2017 championship. They cannot claim divisional, ALCS or WS championship seasons. Noted in record books... no merchandise sales, no pennant or World Series flags flown at their ballpark.
Suspend everyone involved for 2 years from MLB. Loss of salary... Have it be part of their permanent resume, as steroids with Barry Bonds and everyone else... as gambling on baseball is part of Pete Rose's permanent record.
This kind of behavior has to be stopped at all costs or it will ruin the game. Players involved should be fined 30% of their yearly salary and the team fined 5 million dollars too. Other penalties can include loss of draft picks. I am no longer an Astros fan.
If the use of electronic means to steal signs was forbidden by rule, I'd be in favor of stiff penalties. I'd vote for two forms of punishment: stripping the Astros of draft picks AND suspending individuals who can be shown to have been involved. MLB must make it clear that the use of electronic means to steal signs is beyond going to the limit to win. It crosses the line. Removing draft picks is an easy call. The franchise benefited from cheating, so the franchise should suffer once (if) that cheating is confirmed. I also have no problem punishing individuals known to have been involved. They should not be able to escape sanction simply because they are no longer employed by the team that cheated. They carried out the cheating; they must pay the price. The complicating factor, in my view, comes into play if MLB's rules did not expressly ban the use of electronic means to steal signs. If it was like the steroid thing years ago - frowned upon and not openly acknowledged but not expressly banned - then the Astros should suffer the condemnation of fans who know they violated the spirit of the game to win, but MLB will not have firm justification for official sanctions. And, yes, that means that, if I was a HOF voter, I'd supported the candidacies of players who have obvious HOF numbers but who aren't in the Hall because they are believed to be steroid cheats. Punish for rule-breaking, not for unpopular or even unwise actions.
Vacate and ban from 2020 postseason. Both related to where and how the cheating occurred. Loss of WS win is as huge as it gets. Our Dodgers haven’t won since “‘88 as we are painfully reminded year after year. Exclusion from next seasons post play while they still have a contending team is also debilitating. No need to kill the Astros with other punishment. This punishment fits THIS crime. They’ll remember this punishment forever. Fans remember everything and they will too.
Throw the book at them!
Do it all !
How do we not know that this was tied to well.....gambling or other unknown personal financial gain!
Investigate, and kick all out of baseball.
What’s next, bionic vision for players. Stop the next generation of players tempted to take cheating short cuts.
Steroids, electronics.... what’s next! Make a statement for the wrongs and a stern blast for the future participants.
Pissed!
Jim
I say do nothing. Baseball never forgets. Believe me - Dodger, Red Sox and Yankee fans will never let this one be forgotten. The stain will never leave them, and that is punishment enough. I do feel bad for future prospects and future managers that have to inherit this legacy (and this is their legacy). As a life long Dodger fan I am not only angry, however I am sad. As a baseball fan I am devastated that some of the games’ greatest and talented players may be involved. I am a fan of Jose Altuve and Alex Bergman. Even if they didn’t participate, they are still culpable. No matter what, nobody wins in this scenario.
Loss of draft choices for 1 year, suspension of those found to be involved for up to 1 year, and a fine of 30 million dollars. Make it hurt.
This is just the tip of the Asteriskos level of cheating. Verlander, Cole, Morton, et al have seen big increases in velocity since coming to Houston. Minute Maid Juice, indeed.
Take away draft picks and diminish ability to sign international players. If Fiers knew, then likely entire team could be implicated, so the organization should be fined, as well as every manager, coach, player and other personnel aware of the scheme.
Take away top 2-3 draft picks for as many as 5 years, splitting the picks among the Dodgers and, IF they are found to have cheated in the AL playoffs, the AL teams the Astros played in the 2017 post-season. Also, a huge fine that goes against the salary cap so should they want to sign FAs, they will have to go above the tax level. Hit them with this for 2-3 years.
While having a baserunner at 2nd base attempting to steal signs is not prohibited (although some might say that is wrong), using electronics is clearly against the rules and the Astros should be penalized severely as it led them to a World Series title.
But at the same time, I'm sure Dave Roberts' strategy and in-game managing, especially as it relates to pitching, may have eliminated the need for the Astros to cheat.
How sad! Not in BASEBALL.....not in America's game. I'm a Dodgers fan from the 50's but have always kind of pulled for the Astros because I thought they were a good and decent organization. I was so wrong!! The title should be vacated or at least always be accompanied by an asterisk with an explanation that they cheated to win it. The organization should be fined (a lot) and the money go toward building little league baseball diamonds, but not in the Houston area. They should forfeit draft picks and be banned from signing free agents for 3 years.
Whatever happens, it needs to hurt them badly....just like they hurt our sport!!!!!
I agree with most of your suggestions Houston. I also agree with most of the comments. It has to hit them where it hurts. No draft picks and no free agent signing for 5 years instead of 1 or 2 years. Vacate World Series title, no Post Season in 2020 and punish all known offenders. It seems harsh but it gets the message across. The biggest losers here are not us Dodgers fans but Astro fans. Another option would be to fine the owners enough money and have the money go to pay for every Houston fan that goes to a home game in 2020. Thanks Houston.
Vacate the title, suspend those involved where ever they are and take away draft picks for 2 or 3 years.
If the punishment is not severe, baseball is closing their eyes to a crime that had a terrible effect on teams and individuals!
If the punishment isn't harsh enough, then don't bother doing anything! To really get the point across that any form of cheating won't be tolerated, have the current owners sell the team. If that can't be done, then the team forfeits draft picks for at least 3 years, at least $25,000,000.00 in fines, The manager and GM and any coaches involved should be banned for life plus any player personal suspended for at least one year. Finally MLB, should prevent any awards for example, Cy Young, MVP, etc, be awarded to any Astro player for at least two years and definitely no entry into the Hall of Fame. A written explanation that is placed in the Hall of Fame with the reasons why these punishments were administered so any sport fans visiting that Hallowed institution will know that cheating will not be tolerated and what the consequences will be if you do!!!
It would most likely not be possible to take away their championship and give to the Dodgers, too much time has gone by and little hard to celebrate now! People always try an take advantage of the game an get an edge, from the field it's done daily not a problem. Using devices electrically is not legal and should be banned and sever punishment should be associated with team and players. The team was awful before many draft picks for years, send them back to the dark ages.. No draft picks, HUGE FINE!! Give the money to some deserving charity, church, organization. Help people in need. Have MLB investigate them and the stadium before each game, that would be an embarrassment. Definitely put an * next to the 2017 season championship. Make them look bad as can be and have them under MLB investigation for minimum 5 years. Certainly they should be in last place by end of some suspension as well, have them go through a whole new re-build process.
It's hard to think of a punishment severe enough to set an example to discourage any team in the future from even thinking of cheating. The title should be forfeited and the trophy surrendered publicly with apologies. Fines and suspensions are due to all individuals involved. It's too bad that now other teams will be affected. PS Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame because of what he accomplished as a player not because he was stupid when he retired.
The 2017 title goes to the Dodgers. You say doing that would punish the other AL teams. Well, the Astros were representing the AL, so the AL would lose the title. You have a concern about banning the Atros from postseason play as this would vacate the 162 game regular season games. If you are in a game 7 scenario, in the WS, it DOES boil down to only ONE game, regardless of what you did during the season. While you cannot punish players and coaches who are now with other teams but by reclaiming the title and awarding it to the team that did not cheat is only appropriate. Believe me, the players and coaches involved would feel it no matter what team they are with now.
Series Title vacated. Franchise sold. Players banned. Send America a message about right VS wrong.
Series Title vacated. Franchise sold. Players banned. Send America a message about right VS wrong.
Yu Darvish especially pitched well earlier in the playoffs. Clayton Kershaw too. It is really criminal what the 2017 World Series did to their legacies. It cost Darvish millions in free agency. What do you do to criminals who perpetrate such crimes? No punishment is too severe.
Consider also the damage and doubt inflicted on the game. Makes me question if the Nationals knew what pitches might be coming from Kershaw. That was too bizarre.
The Astros World Series title should be taken away and the trophy taken back too. You cannot reward cheating. They deserve this punishment. If you cheat in the Olympics you are stripped of your medal and sometimes banned so stripping the title and no trophy should be just punishment for the Cheatstros!
They should be stripped of the 2017 WS title. Period. Losing draft picks, charity work and fines are a slap on the wrist. Their players should be banned for life. If Pete Rose can be banned for betting on games, Astro players should be banned for cheating. If some are on other teams, too bad. If the Red Sox lose Alex Cora, well, the fault lies with Alex Cora. These guys are supposed to be professionals.
In addition to vacating title, imposing fines and losing potential free agent picks, force the Astros during all 2020 home games to play “Your Lyin’ Eyes” during the 7th inning stretch. It’s a start.
Take away their draft picks, all of them, for years. Take away their right to sign international players. Do whatever it takes to teach other clubs that cheating is simply not worth it. MLB should also investigate if other teams are doing or have done the same thing.
Punishment has to be severe, if the GM of the Braves can be banned for life, Astros GM and manager deserve the same fate. I also would take away draft picks and fine them the highest amount allowed.
Worst part of the whole thing is what happened to Yu Darvish and Kershaw as a result of games 3 and 5. Both pitchers were red hot before going to Houston and inexplicably Darvish forgot how to pitch and Kershaw after very dominant game 1 gave up huge hits in game 5.
I have lost any respect that I had for the Astros players and their entire organization. MLB needs to punish them in a way where it will hurt and send a message to all the other teams that cheating will not be tolerated.
In addition to vacating title, imposing fines and losing potential draft picks, force the Astros during all 2000 home games to play “Your Lyin’ Eyes” during the 7th inning stretch. It’s a start.
DOES MANFRED HAVE THE BALLS TO LEVY SEVERE PUNISHMENT ? PROB NOT . HE ONLY CARES ABOUT LENGTH OF TIME OF BALLGAMES. HE IS DESTROYING THE SACRED GAME AND PASTIME TENS OF MILLIONS OF FOLKS HAVE ENDEARED THEMSELVES TO FOR 125 YEARS. LEAVE THE GAME ALONE FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE. IT IS CRITICAL THAT MLB PUNISHES THOSE INVOLVED (PLAYERS,MGR COACHES/EXECS) TO THE EXTREME BOTH FINANCIALLY AND BY REMOVAL OF LCS , W.S TITLES . INCLUDING EXCLUSION OF ANY 2020 POST SEASON INVOLVEMENT , AND EXCLUDING PARTICIPATION IN THE DRAFT FOR 3 YEARS. WAKE UP MANFRED ! DO THE RIGHT THING. AND RESIGN WHILE YOU'RE AT IT.
I think if you are going to suspend everyone involved, might as well suspend the team from competing for one season, including those on other teams. the main ones as well whether they are on other teams as well, make them return the earnings and a stiff fine individually. go through whatever it takes to send the message, just like they did to win a championship.
Asterisks are about as severe as Major League Baseball gets once the deed is done. If, say, an umpire noticed during a game that may be different. Think of the Steroid Era of MLB, rarely has an award been taken away. Bonds and Ryan Braun come immediately to mind for me. Braun has perpetually wide-opened eyes as a result of steroids. The Astros organization ought to purge themselves of all players and management involved.
P.S. Pete Rose should be in the MLB Hall of Fame.
Houston claims the thrill is in the moment you win the title. The Astros and their fans will always have the thrill of that moment no matter what. The Dodgers and their fans won’t get that moment. Make the Astros take a walk of shame and take their title away. They will no longer be able to claim that they have won one WS title. Also, ban the management team for life, regardless of the team they are currently on. They knew what was going on and went along with it regardless. Shows no moral character. Players go along with things because the management tell them to, and if they aren't superstars, then if they don't follow orders, they will be out of a job. And hit the owners in the pocketbook. It is the only thing they understand. Also make management make amends by making them do positive things for baseball in the community, build fields, give free clinics, ... but make sure that it is supervised.
This type of team lead systemic cheating must significantly be punished. Arguably worse than the Black Sox scandal, as knowledge had to be everywhere, right up to the top. Strip first 3 rounds of draft picks for 5 years. Then fine the Astros organization a huge sum of money. An amount that is actually painful for the organization. Then, take a large portion (if not all) of that money and distribute it to the players that were on the opposing rosters. You could do it incrementally. 50% to World Series, 30% to ALCS, 20% ALDS; or some logical formula. I imagine most top paid players will donate the money to various charities. That’s their choice. But I think there has to be some trickle down compensation for this. Plus an actual league imposed asterisk on the Title. I hate cheaters.
Stealing signs by the Astros?
What about D’backs. Almost everyone of their players has a higher batting avg at home
Watch their batters even the body language is different. Back in 1996 hideo Nomo started against them and mike
Piazza , the catcher , changed signs every inning
What happened?
Nomo pitched a No No!
I would fine all the players involved a whole years salary. Make it hurt! A $50,000 dollar fine is a slap on the wrist for pro players. The money then gets spread out to each team they cheated against, and that team gets to donate the funds to a charity. They also lose the 2017 Championship. (No winner that year).
In baseball the owners run everything. So fine the Astro owners $100,000,000 (or the approximate value of winning the WS) and split it among all the teams in proportion to their annual budget.
I'm heart broken. I'm a lifelong Dodger fan and to have this happen is absolutely disgusting. EVERYONE in the Houston dugout had to be aware of what was going on. Therefore, EVERYONE must be suspended and their stats MUST be asterisked. The great Jose Altuve (My previous personal hero) is no longer the biggest man in baseball. Every Astro is now untouchable as none of them can be trusted! Lifetime bans for the management team and forced sale of the team by the ownership. Suspensions for ALL players, whether they are still on the Astros. or not. Guilt by association must be assumed at the very least. This is so much worse than if we were to learn that the moon landings were faked! Houston, you are the worst city in the USA! We should figure out a way to make the whole city of Houston fall into the ocean. Let it sink to the bottom of the Caribbean Sea. Outside of the 12 mile continental limit, of course, so that they can all cheat and gamble and do whatever the Hell else, free of the laws and rules of the USA and of MLB. Alex Cora, as manager of the Red Sox, beat the Dodgers in 2018. There needs to be a full investigation into the practices of the 2018 Red Sox because of his participation in the ILLEGAL cheating in 2017 with the Astros. These people are the lowest of all human life forms. If the MLB doesn't clean house of the cheating thoroughly this will be the turning point of Baseball. Many, many fans will stop being fans. We'll end up doing household chores instead of watching or going to games. A great depression would fall upon the entire country, maybe the world. Soccer would take the place of Baseball as the great American pastime. What a terrible future that would be! Just kill me now.
This goes far beyond who may or may not have won the division, championship and World Series.. What about players on other teams who lost awards to Astro players affecting salary bonuses. Pitchers who were hit harder than they should have been, losing bonuses. How much is a World Series title worth in compensation to players and teams. Worse yet, how many people lost money betting against the Astros or for other teams throughout the year. The fines and penalties need to be substantial.
The entire Astros team should be suspended for 2020. Players who were not involved, if any, are freed from their contracts and become automatic free agents. Those who were involved have to sit out the season. Doesn’t matter if they are now on a different team. If the new team paid anything to the Astros for the player, the Astros must pay it back, regardless of whether it is money, picks or players.
Houston makes several good points about why suspending players (and possibly front office staff) is problematical. Any 2017 FO staff still with the Astros could be liable for suspension. But I think the best, or at least most workable, solution would be losing draft choices and having their luxury tax threshold lowered.
My thoughts...
*Take the WS Title away.
*Take draft picks away for 3 years.
*Ban them from the post season for 3 years.
*No free agent signings for 3 years.
I think none of these punishments would deter the cheating. Lose some picks? In exchange for a World Championship? What organization wouldn't gladly make that deal? It's like the absurd steroid punishments. 75 games-April to June. Then come back and use your pumped up body to contribute to a playoff run. Who does that deter? And that's only if you're caught!
You have to find a punishment that actually makes a team think twice about cheating. Like, maybe, money. Lot's and lots of money-millions, maybe tens of millions. That's the only thing that might deter the Houston ownership from permitting this. Even vacating the title wouldn't deter the players and coaches-they would still know they won.
And what the heck does "Astros cooperating with the investigation" even mean? Cooperating means admitting. They know what they did.
Ban the Top Executives that sanctioned the Cheating (GM ?) and all the executives and managers involved. If its Cora tough if you do the crime you have to do the time. Also take away top draft choices for several years. The penalty must be a strong deterrent or it is not effective.
first, the title should be vacated, without a doubt. after that, maybe a large fine payable to youth baseball programs
or other worthy causes, and forfeiture of draft picks--maybe first 5 picks for a year, or maybe 1st round picks for 5 years
Make them have to take Yu Darvish.
Let Justice be done. Use Pete Rose's case as a benchmark. Investigate thorough to find ALL those responsible in the entire Astros hierarchy. Hold them accountable with banishment and fines like Rose. Remember, Pete did do his time in prison. Let's give him credit for that. ALL the Astros players had to have been aware of this system and its illegality. Fines to each are appropriate which would be their punishment and payment and free them to go on. Suggested fees would be each players' share of both play-offs (Red Sox and Yankees series) and World Series shares. ALSO, other MLB teams may have had their own ILLEGAL means of stealing signs. It would be a travesty to the Great Game if there is only a 'hands slapping!" penalty
Draft picks are always a crap shoot. So I don't that would be to much of a deterent. But banning them from the 2020 post season is interesting because they and their fans will be reminded they cheated and got caught for an entire season. Plus vacating the World Series Championship goes without saying.
A large fine; suspension for the owner and GM; and draft pick forfeiture should be imposed. Perhaps the Astros #1 pick should be awarded to the Dodgers; #2 pick to the Yankees--the teams the Astros defeated in 2017.
The team should be banned for two years from post season play, plus any personel involve that went to other
clubs should also be banned. The world series title should have an asterisk indicating cheating.
Astros should be stripped of their title lose draft picks for 2 or 3 years and execs manager and coaches should b suspended for various lengths of time
The punishment should be so potent that no team should ever consider even think about trying it. The reputation of baseball is on the line.
Vacate the World Series title, ban the Astros and all other teams from any references to an Astros championship, and ban them from post season play in 2020. Less punishment encourages cheating as a cost of doing business.
I’d like to see a public admission of guilt along with a series of punishments like hefty fines and charity work
So sad to hear this. Astros and those involved should be punished. If they do nothing and someone else cheats , they will use it as a excuse. ( “Astros did it why can’t we”.) Need to set a example now. Astros don’t deserve to be Champions.
Need to send a strong message to the baseball community... Pete Rose was banned for life for gambling... Cheating in the game is unacceptable. Need to sanction the Astros with taking away draft picks for the next 3-5 years, year-long suspensions for coaches and front office staff involved, fines and of course, vacate the 2017 championship...
GM and Head Coach are banned for life
Any player or other coaching staff to receive 30-90 game suspensions in 2020 depending on level of involvement
Fines of course
Take away draft picks for next 3 years
Ban anyone found guilty from every being inducted into Hall of Fame
Given the other issues swirling around the Astros perhaps Luhnow should take the fall? Fat chance, they’ll find another assistant deputy GM in charge of field maintenance to sacrifice.
I HATE CHEATERS,THE ASTROS SHOULD BE PUNISHED SEVERELY,THEIR TITLE WILL BE FOREVER TAINTED,THE DODGERS STILL HAVE THEIR INTEGRITY AND GOOD REPUTATION,MAYBE 2020 WILL FINALLY BE OUR YEAR