I would say Yes, but with caveats. There are high risk specialties and environments in healthcare, where unvaccinated employees simply present too much risk.
Just off the top of my head, these would include the OR, ICU, transplant specialties, some cancer treatment offices, probably the entire ER. Any ward where antibiotic resistant infections are found. Any "complex care" specialties.
I'm probably missing a bunch too.
Beezeebob - 3 years ago
Nope. I’ve got a baby who can’t get the vaccine right now so I’m not going to risk her safety. Our independent pediatrics office recently announced they’re requiring vaccines for all employees. They lost a few staff and patients but gained many many more from the other good pediatrics office in town that’s owned by a large IDN that has vaccines as optional.
If you’re a healthcare professional and not getting the vaccine because you think it’s “evil” or “under-researched” or full of chips or tracking you or whatever nonsense, then I have no interest in being seen by you anyway. I am not an epidemiologist, and I’d hazard a guess that only a handful of people taking this survey are. But I trust our scientific community and our healthcare researchers, and if they recommend a vaccine then that’s whose advice I’m going to follow. I follow my hairstylist’s advice on cuts because they’re an expert. I follow my plant store’s advice on plants because they’re an expert. I follow Fauci’s advice because he’s an expert.
Marge Simpson - 3 years ago
JVM69, if that is your name, you should Google Mr. Seymour Skinner he is pretty well known and a pillar of the community here in Springfield.
I agree with the comments others have made that some have a medical condition that precludes them from getting the vaccine and obviously those individuals should listen to the advice of their doctors. Since you have called anyone who disagrees with you "misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant" it sounds like you know it all. I think anyone who claims to know it all about Covid at this point in the game is "misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant." The CDC is doing the best they can given the information they have considering it is a new virus and the environment changes rapidly (e.g., Delta variant).
Have you seen the data showing the correlation between state vaccinations rates and state Covid hospitalizations? Would you agree that when the ICUs beds are full, the first triage question asked should be are you here with Covid and did you refuse the vaccine for non-specific medical reasons (e.g., I don't need it, Bill Gates put a chip in it, it's made from aborted fetuses, etc.)? If so, would you also not agree that those folks who refused the vaccine should be the lowest priority in determining who gets the limited life-saving care in our hospitals? Just wondering since you are so well informed.
Sam - 3 years ago
I put "No" but it's not fully clear-cut. I would be uneasy with the medical advice of someone who's not on board with vaccination generally. There are allergy considerations for the vaccines, though, so it's possible for someone to be unable to take these vaccines for reasons specific to them.
To Stephanie's point, I'm not responsible for your health but I am responsible if I endanger your health. Similar to why we outlawed smoking in many indoor spaces. And there are plenty of people who cannot yet be vaccinated who haven't made that choice.
To JVM's point, that makes me nervous as a vaccinated person about how likely I am to pass on to others. I'm still much happier being vaccinated than if I were not. They still haven't given numbers for how much less likely, although public health experts I have seen all say vaccinated people are still less effective disease vectors than unvaccinated people. But I have continued wearing masks in public places and avoiding crowded places even after getting vaccinated. If someone chooses not to get vaccinated and continues self-isolating and wearing masks when in public I respect that choice.
Stephanie Hill - 3 years ago
There are many reasons as to why someone may not be vaccinated. My health is my responsibility, so I am fully vaccinated which have greatly reduces my risk of serious consequences from COVID. If someone chooses not to be vaccinated for COVID, or any other disease, that is their right, and I respect it. That being said, it is not my (or others) responsibility to protect people from getting sick because they have chosen not to be vaccinated.
raven_smiles - 3 years ago
My preference is to be treated by someone who's been vaccinated, but if the situation is dire enough that I'm at a hospital I want treated by whoever will help. I am vaccinated and while the mask order has been lifted in Ohio, I believe that healthcare organizations are still requiring masks. At least, that's true of a LTC facility I was at yesterday. I've been surprised that my local hospital (Cleveland Clinic) is not requiring vaccines of their employees but given the big hospitals that are requiring it surely they'll join in.
I've been trying to think about this in relation to the flu vaccine which I think every healthcare organization requires of their employees. Years ago I think employees could opt-out but had to mask up throughout flu season, but I think that practice ended in 2015ish. So I expect the requirement to be gradual but eventually be required of everyone.
But - I am (knock on wood) a relatively healthy person and only have annual visits. If I was immunocompromised like my stepmom or battling cancer like my dad I might think differently.
JVM69 - 3 years ago
Seymour Skinner, if that is your name, you've embarrassed yourself. Poor analogy from the poorly informed. Stop morale grandstanding and stay at home inside with your mask on. Or, keep yourself healthy, understand the facts, and help out someone who is immune compromised and keep them healthy and away from the rest of us.
Seymour Skinner - 3 years ago
I feel like people in this country who don't get the vaccine are selfish and irresponsible, just like drunk drivers. Drunk drivers think I can go out and drink and drive if I want. I have done it all my life and not killed anyone, so clearly there is no risk. Until they kill an innocent family due to their "bad decision", then it is too late. Healthcare workers not willing to get a vaccine need to find another job.
As my health system and others are leading the way out of this mess by requiring vaccines for all employees and contractors, I hear from some Republican friends that claim to be against big government, that Governor abbott should prevent employers in Texas from requiring vaccines for employees (they have a petition). They feel the government should make all business owners put themselves, other employees and customers at increased risk of dying to protect the their individual "rights." In my central Texas county the vaccination rate is less than 33% and all hospitals in the area are stressed out. In nearby Austin and surrounding communities there are only nine available staffed ICU beds for nearly 2.3 million people in region. Your bad decision is not just impacting you, it is impacting the entire city/state/country/world.
JVM69 - 3 years ago
Just Say No, Peter, Janice WIWWTP, Another Dave - you are misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant. Ever think there may be a reason a person cannot be vaccinated? No, it's about YOU. You do not understand the FDA filings for each vaccination maker that the vaccine DOES NOT STOP spread. Check the facts and don't rely on just a news story that numbers are up. So what? Were they asymptomatic, felt better or how many were in fact admitted? You're part of the masses pushing a narrative as you look over your shoulder after you took an EUA vaccine (that still is not fully FDA approved - think about that) that really is proving not that effective. Matter of fact recent CDC posting ought to make the vaccinated a bit nervous if you look at the charts. (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w). I write this from a position of having had COVID (51 relatively good health) and now blessed with natural immunity. Our kids are fully vaccinated except for this one. Thank you Jackie for your post as well. I hope for us all, even you 5. Can you do the same?
JVM69 - 3 years ago
Just Say No, Peter, Janice WIWWTP, Another Dave - you are misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant. Ever think there may be a reason a person cannot be vaccinated? No, it's about YOU. You do not understand the FDA filings for each vaccination maker that the vaccine DOES NOT STOP spread. Check the facts and don't rely on just a news story that numbers are up. So what? Were they asymptomatic, felt better or how many were in fact admitted?
You're part of the masses pushing a narrative as you look over your should that you took an EUA vaccine (that still is not fully FDA approved - think about that) that really is proving not that effective. Matter of fact recent CDC posting ought to make the vaccinated a bit nervous if you look at the charts. I write this from a position of having had COVID
(51 relatively good health) and now blessed with natural immunity. Our kids are fully vaccinated except for this one. Thank you Jackie for your post as well. I hope for us all, even your 5.
MurfTheSurf - 3 years ago
As long as I am vaccinated, I am fine with it. I might wear a mask during the encounter, but would still go through with it.
Just say No! - 3 years ago
My spouse was recently hospitalized at the academic institution where I am on the faculty. He is an annoyingly persistent person who is scientifically savvy and asked each healthcare worker that he encountered if they’d had the vaccine. Quite a few people said no. He was most distressed (and appropriately so) by the ECHO tech who was wearing a mask but had her face inches from his while moving the ECHO sensor around on his chest. She was apparently adamant that she wasn’t going to get the vaccine and she didn’t care if people disagreed with her. Suffice it to say my institution will be getting a deservedly bad rating on the Press-Ganey survey. Their recent Facebook campaign on positive feedback from family should also reconsidered….
Peter Crowley - 3 years ago
I would avoid any healthcare institution that failed to require vaccination against COVID-19.
Jackie Porter - 3 years ago
Given that the fatality rate is less than 1%, given that studies have proven that 100% of health care workers taking Ivermectin prophylactically did not acquire COVID, given that the vaccine is not FDA approved and there have been reported over 11,940 deaths and over 63,000 serious adverse events to the vaccine, likely 1/10 of the actual number, and given that the vaccinated are acquiring, transmitting, and dying from COVID, and may even be shedding spike proteins from the jab, I prefer an unvaccinated healthcare worker and would never require this of anyone.
Janice McCallum - 3 years ago
Oops, I hit Yes instead of No. Blame it on my eyesight; I'm having cataract surgery Wednesday ????
My reasoning follows that of the 1st commenter: I don't want to receive healthcare services from someone whose judgement is so poor.
WhatisWrongWithThesePeople - 3 years ago
If a healthcare worker can’t establish the safety of vaccination relative to the risk of COVID19 then I would question their capacity to provide cogent clinically valid care so its a hard no
That said its moot since we live in bizarro world where that information is not available to a patient or anyone else to know that they are in the company of someone who has not been vaccinated
AnotherDave - 3 years ago
I voted "no". .. but my complete answer is "it depends".
When healthcare organizations mandate vaccines as a condition of employment AND there is a valid weekly testing procedure for the few approved unvax'd employees AND I have my x95 mask AND I have no other choice, then MAYBE.
..if their mask is under their nose, I'm outta there.
Where I live the new case rate is still low... I'd be very uncomfortable in Clark Count NV.
I would say Yes, but with caveats. There are high risk specialties and environments in healthcare, where unvaccinated employees simply present too much risk.
Just off the top of my head, these would include the OR, ICU, transplant specialties, some cancer treatment offices, probably the entire ER. Any ward where antibiotic resistant infections are found. Any "complex care" specialties.
I'm probably missing a bunch too.
Nope. I’ve got a baby who can’t get the vaccine right now so I’m not going to risk her safety. Our independent pediatrics office recently announced they’re requiring vaccines for all employees. They lost a few staff and patients but gained many many more from the other good pediatrics office in town that’s owned by a large IDN that has vaccines as optional.
If you’re a healthcare professional and not getting the vaccine because you think it’s “evil” or “under-researched” or full of chips or tracking you or whatever nonsense, then I have no interest in being seen by you anyway. I am not an epidemiologist, and I’d hazard a guess that only a handful of people taking this survey are. But I trust our scientific community and our healthcare researchers, and if they recommend a vaccine then that’s whose advice I’m going to follow. I follow my hairstylist’s advice on cuts because they’re an expert. I follow my plant store’s advice on plants because they’re an expert. I follow Fauci’s advice because he’s an expert.
JVM69, if that is your name, you should Google Mr. Seymour Skinner he is pretty well known and a pillar of the community here in Springfield.
I agree with the comments others have made that some have a medical condition that precludes them from getting the vaccine and obviously those individuals should listen to the advice of their doctors. Since you have called anyone who disagrees with you "misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant" it sounds like you know it all. I think anyone who claims to know it all about Covid at this point in the game is "misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant." The CDC is doing the best they can given the information they have considering it is a new virus and the environment changes rapidly (e.g., Delta variant).
Have you seen the data showing the correlation between state vaccinations rates and state Covid hospitalizations? Would you agree that when the ICUs beds are full, the first triage question asked should be are you here with Covid and did you refuse the vaccine for non-specific medical reasons (e.g., I don't need it, Bill Gates put a chip in it, it's made from aborted fetuses, etc.)? If so, would you also not agree that those folks who refused the vaccine should be the lowest priority in determining who gets the limited life-saving care in our hospitals? Just wondering since you are so well informed.
I put "No" but it's not fully clear-cut. I would be uneasy with the medical advice of someone who's not on board with vaccination generally. There are allergy considerations for the vaccines, though, so it's possible for someone to be unable to take these vaccines for reasons specific to them.
To Stephanie's point, I'm not responsible for your health but I am responsible if I endanger your health. Similar to why we outlawed smoking in many indoor spaces. And there are plenty of people who cannot yet be vaccinated who haven't made that choice.
To JVM's point, that makes me nervous as a vaccinated person about how likely I am to pass on to others. I'm still much happier being vaccinated than if I were not. They still haven't given numbers for how much less likely, although public health experts I have seen all say vaccinated people are still less effective disease vectors than unvaccinated people. But I have continued wearing masks in public places and avoiding crowded places even after getting vaccinated. If someone chooses not to get vaccinated and continues self-isolating and wearing masks when in public I respect that choice.
There are many reasons as to why someone may not be vaccinated. My health is my responsibility, so I am fully vaccinated which have greatly reduces my risk of serious consequences from COVID. If someone chooses not to be vaccinated for COVID, or any other disease, that is their right, and I respect it. That being said, it is not my (or others) responsibility to protect people from getting sick because they have chosen not to be vaccinated.
My preference is to be treated by someone who's been vaccinated, but if the situation is dire enough that I'm at a hospital I want treated by whoever will help. I am vaccinated and while the mask order has been lifted in Ohio, I believe that healthcare organizations are still requiring masks. At least, that's true of a LTC facility I was at yesterday. I've been surprised that my local hospital (Cleveland Clinic) is not requiring vaccines of their employees but given the big hospitals that are requiring it surely they'll join in.
I've been trying to think about this in relation to the flu vaccine which I think every healthcare organization requires of their employees. Years ago I think employees could opt-out but had to mask up throughout flu season, but I think that practice ended in 2015ish. So I expect the requirement to be gradual but eventually be required of everyone.
But - I am (knock on wood) a relatively healthy person and only have annual visits. If I was immunocompromised like my stepmom or battling cancer like my dad I might think differently.
Seymour Skinner, if that is your name, you've embarrassed yourself. Poor analogy from the poorly informed. Stop morale grandstanding and stay at home inside with your mask on. Or, keep yourself healthy, understand the facts, and help out someone who is immune compromised and keep them healthy and away from the rest of us.
I feel like people in this country who don't get the vaccine are selfish and irresponsible, just like drunk drivers. Drunk drivers think I can go out and drink and drive if I want. I have done it all my life and not killed anyone, so clearly there is no risk. Until they kill an innocent family due to their "bad decision", then it is too late. Healthcare workers not willing to get a vaccine need to find another job.
As my health system and others are leading the way out of this mess by requiring vaccines for all employees and contractors, I hear from some Republican friends that claim to be against big government, that Governor abbott should prevent employers in Texas from requiring vaccines for employees (they have a petition). They feel the government should make all business owners put themselves, other employees and customers at increased risk of dying to protect the their individual "rights." In my central Texas county the vaccination rate is less than 33% and all hospitals in the area are stressed out. In nearby Austin and surrounding communities there are only nine available staffed ICU beds for nearly 2.3 million people in region. Your bad decision is not just impacting you, it is impacting the entire city/state/country/world.
Just Say No, Peter, Janice WIWWTP, Another Dave - you are misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant. Ever think there may be a reason a person cannot be vaccinated? No, it's about YOU. You do not understand the FDA filings for each vaccination maker that the vaccine DOES NOT STOP spread. Check the facts and don't rely on just a news story that numbers are up. So what? Were they asymptomatic, felt better or how many were in fact admitted? You're part of the masses pushing a narrative as you look over your shoulder after you took an EUA vaccine (that still is not fully FDA approved - think about that) that really is proving not that effective. Matter of fact recent CDC posting ought to make the vaccinated a bit nervous if you look at the charts. (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w). I write this from a position of having had COVID (51 relatively good health) and now blessed with natural immunity. Our kids are fully vaccinated except for this one. Thank you Jackie for your post as well. I hope for us all, even you 5. Can you do the same?
Just Say No, Peter, Janice WIWWTP, Another Dave - you are misinformed, not well read and frankly ignorant. Ever think there may be a reason a person cannot be vaccinated? No, it's about YOU. You do not understand the FDA filings for each vaccination maker that the vaccine DOES NOT STOP spread. Check the facts and don't rely on just a news story that numbers are up. So what? Were they asymptomatic, felt better or how many were in fact admitted?
You're part of the masses pushing a narrative as you look over your should that you took an EUA vaccine (that still is not fully FDA approved - think about that) that really is proving not that effective. Matter of fact recent CDC posting ought to make the vaccinated a bit nervous if you look at the charts. I write this from a position of having had COVID
(51 relatively good health) and now blessed with natural immunity. Our kids are fully vaccinated except for this one. Thank you Jackie for your post as well. I hope for us all, even your 5.
As long as I am vaccinated, I am fine with it. I might wear a mask during the encounter, but would still go through with it.
My spouse was recently hospitalized at the academic institution where I am on the faculty. He is an annoyingly persistent person who is scientifically savvy and asked each healthcare worker that he encountered if they’d had the vaccine. Quite a few people said no. He was most distressed (and appropriately so) by the ECHO tech who was wearing a mask but had her face inches from his while moving the ECHO sensor around on his chest. She was apparently adamant that she wasn’t going to get the vaccine and she didn’t care if people disagreed with her. Suffice it to say my institution will be getting a deservedly bad rating on the Press-Ganey survey. Their recent Facebook campaign on positive feedback from family should also reconsidered….
I would avoid any healthcare institution that failed to require vaccination against COVID-19.
Given that the fatality rate is less than 1%, given that studies have proven that 100% of health care workers taking Ivermectin prophylactically did not acquire COVID, given that the vaccine is not FDA approved and there have been reported over 11,940 deaths and over 63,000 serious adverse events to the vaccine, likely 1/10 of the actual number, and given that the vaccinated are acquiring, transmitting, and dying from COVID, and may even be shedding spike proteins from the jab, I prefer an unvaccinated healthcare worker and would never require this of anyone.
Oops, I hit Yes instead of No. Blame it on my eyesight; I'm having cataract surgery Wednesday ????
My reasoning follows that of the 1st commenter: I don't want to receive healthcare services from someone whose judgement is so poor.
If a healthcare worker can’t establish the safety of vaccination relative to the risk of COVID19 then I would question their capacity to provide cogent clinically valid care so its a hard no
That said its moot since we live in bizarro world where that information is not available to a patient or anyone else to know that they are in the company of someone who has not been vaccinated
I voted "no". .. but my complete answer is "it depends".
When healthcare organizations mandate vaccines as a condition of employment AND there is a valid weekly testing procedure for the few approved unvax'd employees AND I have my x95 mask AND I have no other choice, then MAYBE.
..if their mask is under their nose, I'm outta there.
Where I live the new case rate is still low... I'd be very uncomfortable in Clark Count NV.