OK I confess... I told all the centeral Ohio Umpires about this vote and they all came to the website and voted for Wood...
how about looking in our wallets???
Wow.. So now we are going to be a metal bat league again.. Hmm. Even tho the vast majority of votes went towards WOOD!! (is this the Bush Election, where votes don't count).. I know I missed the managers meeting Wed, do to family in ICU. But I like what Knights Manager said.. It forces teams to play baseball the way is was meant to be played, I saw more situational bunting, stealing, and hits and runs, this fall then ever in metal bat MABL. Even from a coaching point of view, in Metal bat we rarely sacrificed runners into scoring position, this fall it was a necessity. And to address the HR and batting avg factor, on fall this year we had couple of HR's, and 2 or 3 guys bat high 400's avg wise. Wood bats really makes you think as a team and work together, and games don't last 3 to 4 hours, like with metal. Why is it that just because we have been playing with metal, must we stay that way. Do not fear change. Not to get to philosophical, but before metal bats, kids 10 years old used wood, in poorer countries around the world they use wood bats. It has nothing to do with ego, or getting recognized. But.. NCAA, will most likely change to wood, after their contract with Easton/Louisville is up. They tried in 2000, when I was still in College. So when that happens are we still going to turn our nose up at wood, when 18 year old kids in college are swinging wood. To sum up, I liked the way a wood bat game was played, and with more practice, hitters will improve with swinging wood. So what if your batting goes down a hundred points!!! If you ego cant take it.,, Start looking in the mirror, AND STOP BLAMING THE BAT MATERIAL.....
In my world the issue of wood would never have been brought up. MABL has historically been a young adult aluminum league with energy that the Sr. League doesn't have. This is why we have 24 regular season games and they have 20 game seasons, even though they are financially loaded compared to us. I don't know how this poll is going to be used. We haven't been informed, and at this point that's a good thing. Perhaps 40 percent against wood can be seen as a vote of no confidence, and that going wood will cause too much division . It should be obvious that the strongest emotions in this poll are coming from some of those in that 40 percent. It bears repeating: I don't know how this poll is going to used. It could be one of several in the coming years to test the water. But if there is going to be a forceful decision, by the powers that be, for this coming season, regardless of criteria for selection, its validity should be tested. This poll, for the most part , is impersonal and thus lends itself better to large groups. We are a small organization. It is a simple procedure for each team manager to communicate with each of his players and get a vote and their reason(s) for voting that way. This could be done by telephone, computer, mail, in person, etc. It only makes sense that the potential draftees somewhere along the line be included. Once this is done the criteria for selection is going to be obvious in the decision. If anyone has a better way of resolving this issue (including the wood people, who have been content to watch the aluminum people pour out their emotional frustration) you need to get on board and make your suggestions known on this comment section.
i agree. this poll is BULLSHIT!!! All the termites have been voting sometimes 3 possibly 4 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder wood is winning! good observation there. NO WOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to question the validity of this poll. If we have 14 teams in our league, and each team has approx 20 people or less on it, the max number of players in our league would be 280 (14 X 20). Since the poll has had 280 "votes", wouldn't that equate to every member of each team voting? I highly doubt each member of the league has truly voted, which is why I hope people don't put too much weight into the results of this poll. Just a thought...
For some reason I was cut off my last posting without a chance to edit for corrections. In any event I'm going to conclude starting after pointing out that the Sr. League all wood teams with 2410 at bats hit a total of 2 home runs. Someone in this poll stated: "The idea to switch to wood is not to separate the Men from the boys rather to play baseball the way it was meant to". This is the way it was meant to be played? Perhaps in dreamland. Why are these teams using expensive top of the line fragile performance wood bats? It certainly isn't to hit home runs. They are either deluded and/or have great sponsors and money to blow. I'm sure that compared to our league they have money to blow on useless bats (for hitting home runs) and wood bat tournaments.. Perhaps it is an ego thing or maybe it's because they are trying to protect their pitchers, expecially older ones from the line drives off of aluminum bats. Your guess is as good as mine. Here is something of interest. The Sr. League plays only a 20 regular game schedule season. If we took off 4 games from our 24 game schedule we could afford some more of those breakaway bats. But here is a better idea, where only one or two games have to be sacrificed on the altar of broken bats. Let's use durable thick handle wood bats, the kind that was used by major leaguers for decades and lasted most or all of the season for some players. For those who can't handle the heaviest lumber have on hand an assortment of shorter bats. If you're not going to hit many or any home runs with the top of the line performance wood bats it shouldn't matter what kind of wood bats you use. (How lmany home runs did you hit last year with aluminum?) Smith- I congratulate you for being against wood and not going over to the dark side. What facts do I need to get straight? What makes you think I'm under 25? Why do you think that I don't appreciate the MABL that over the last 12 years maintained the aluminum bat tradition of tough competitive baseball? Hell, in my mind I've practically built a shrine to them.
Slugger - I'm fighting my better judgement by responding to you but I simply can't buy what your selling. You again attack the validity of the poll by saying, "Sixty percent of uninformed voters is not only not decisive it is insignificant since the poll is invalid as a democratic tool for arriving at informed decision". This poll is doing exactly what is was intended to do as all polls are intended to do, and that is to get an accurate picture using a large sample set (which 270+ votes certainly is) of what the players would prefer. According to this poll, 60% of MABL players with all things being equal would prefer wood bats. This can not be refuted, it's what the numbers show. Sure there are variables like additional cost and the possiblity of losing a few players but that's why Mr. McCrosky is the Comissioner, to make those decisions. This poll is merely a tool for him to make that decision. I think you are confusing a poll with a vote. The next point I couldn't wrap my mind around is your claim that aluminum bats is better for entertainment value for the fans. What fans? Do you mean the half dozen family and friends that show up from time to time. As far as I know we're not selling tickets so why should I care if they're bored.
Look, this isn't the first argument over power vs. skill. Some people want the purrty HR's and some people want the small ball and that's never going to change. I did not hit a HR last year and I won't hit one next year no matter what bat I use and I still prefer the wood bats. You also claimed that the 60% of the voters that preferred wood don't care about the "plight" of the other players. I wasn't sure if you were speaking of skill or alleged financial burden. The financial burden is mythical because no one has stated if the price will even raise and by saying that 60% of the players who want wood don't care about the cost burden to the other 40% is fallacious because you assume the 60% consists of all the richer players. The difference in skill plight is, in my mind, a silly argument because if a player can't hit with a wood bat, they can't hit with aluminum either and if you don't believe that you can start a poll to see what people think.
Wildcat - You say I'm attacking the poll. I say I'm questioning its validity. The decision to present this poll out of the blue over the computer was a bad idea. For a league that has been aluminum for 12 years to suddenly be asked to make a choice that involves going wood not only requires information but deliberation for at least a year. This is that important. The team managers should have been apprised of tis idea at the beginning of this last season so they could lhave gotten feedback from their team mates throughout the year. The issue of expense and players having to drop out because of the additional expense needed to be dealt with, along with ay other issues that might have sprung up. Right now I am thinking trhat many, if not most of the players who voted for wood, regardless of their age, didn't give a damn about the plight of these fellow players. You know who you are. (Now that's an attack.) Sixty percent of uninformed voters is not only not decisive it is insignificant since the poll is invalid as a democratic tool for arriving at informed decision. But even if it were valid forty percent, including myself, are opposed to all wood. This represents a large vote of no confidence when it is considered in the last 12 years one-hundred percent of MABL players played with aluminum and never once sought to establish any kind of wood ba league. This situation serious potential for bitterness, especially if players drop out because of expense or the impending wood bat season doesn't turn out as expected. On paper my suggestion for those who wanted to wood bats to sign up with the Sr. League was workable because it required no reorganization or anything that hadn't been done in the past. I'm not fool enough to think that anyone was going to follow my urging. I'm making a case to retain an aluminum bat tradition that has held up for the last 12 years. In short, I'm trying to get players to think why this was the case and why the tradition should continue even at the cost of some players moving voluntarily on to the Sr. League. I stick by my statement that aluminum moves us closer to major league baseball and wood(in our hands) moves us closer to little league baseball. If you can't figure it out its not important. Believe what you will. What I really want to focus on at this time is the similarity between major league bats and aluminum bats. Major league bats have evolved into light (aluminum light) whippy, breakaway bats that have helped to produce record breaking home runs. There is little doubt that offense draws in fans and produces excitement and big bucks. Today fifty-five percent of major league players are said to use maple bats that have been dehydrated bo make them lighter. Baseball has gon as far as it can to make the ultimate legal maximum performance bat. Not surprisingly it is fairly light much like aluminum bats. As it turns out these ultimate legal maximum performing aluminum bats are in the same category as the wood bats in the majors. MABL like the majors has been using the best legal performance bats possible that can challenge the defense and pitichers' skills and athletic ability. It all adds up to first rate competition. Wood in our league means something entirely different than it does in the majors. It means less home runs, slower ground balls and more flyouts and in general boredom, if not felt by the players, then by savy spectators who are use to aluminum bat action. To give you and others an idea of what awaits for an all wood team in our leagure, aside from a big unpredictable expense for broken bats, four teams in the Sr. League played all wood games last season. In a total of 2410 at bats they hit a grand total of 2 home runs!
that was the stupidest thing i ever read. about 9 guys in our leauge care about being reconized. as for scouts-DREAM ON!!! and your right-the price wont go up drasticly for you only because bums like you rely on managers coming up with the money to make things like this happen. I cant wait to get the $400 dollar bill in the mail to play baseball next year. all because you wanted to play with a toothpick!! you have way to much free time!
I don't think the cost will go up as drastically as you may be concerned. As far as the whole recognition thing? There are different ways to look at it, and each opinion is valid. I merely propose that when i talk to others in other leagues, they get more opportunities to play because people have heard of them. So there you could be adding more games to your schedule, getting more bang for your buck. I like wood because it gets back to the way ti was played, not because we can hit long balls or throw no hitters, but because if your talking about truly enjoying the game then play the way it was meant to be.
It is possible that very soon players could be scouted from our league if we moved to wood. Would you want those individuals to be left out of consideration because we play with aluminum? Not an argument but a fact.
Either way we go, you will have people who are mad with the decision. that is something you will have to deal with. We are a league and will play as one. That's why we should be recognized. there are some great competitors in this league.
hey slugger-If it wasnt for those 12 year vets you would never have a Baseball leauge to play in. So shut your trap "Kid"!! im over 25 and im against wood bats. so stap talking out of your ass and get your facts straight!!!
DON'T FEAR THE WOOD!
Though I respect your opinion and will defend to the death your right to have them I could use some clarification. You seem to be attacking this poll because you don't like the outcome and perverting the results to elaborate your bias towards anyone over 25 years old. Regardless of the motivating factors behind anyones vote, 60% are in favor of wood bats. That's a very decisive margin considering there have been 260+ votes which is enough to field like 20 teams. There's obviously a competitve difference between MABL and MSBL but that doesn't mean that MABL needs aluminium bats just that MABL players might not be good enough for MSBL. How about we just disppose of MABL and MSBL and just have MABL division 1 and 2. Division 1 can be the hardcore players that are just out of college or just missed the professional level and division 2 can be everyone else that loves to play the game but has more opportunities for imrovement. Everyone else who wants to use aluminum and not worry about failure at the plate can play softball.
"Aluminum moves us closer to major league baseball, and wood moves us closer to little league baseball."
Not sure I can agree with that.
The problem with MABL today is that over the last 12 years it has accumulated too many old guys who have stuck around instead of moving on to the Sr. League where there is a mixture of all wood and partial wood bat teams.
For 12 years MABL has been aluminum. Now, that is going to be shot down by some old geezers (25 and over), some who belong in the Sr. League. The way the poll is set up neither of the 2 wood choices would even require a majority vote.
MABL players these many years have joined the league with almost exclusively aluminum bat backgrounds, and with no expectation, including last year, of ever playing with anything but aluminum. So where is this drive to bring wood bats into MABL coming from?
The life blood of MABL is its young players, 24 and under. They can't join the Sr. League, with its wood bat teams, until they are 25. Along with the spring draftees their voices are going to be drowned out by some older guys in a rigged poll that shouldn't be taking place.
If MABL players, 25 and over, have this sudden urge to use wood rather than aluminum then let them vote with their feet by joining the Sr. League. They even have the option of individually working out an arrangement whereby they can play some games in both leagues. I understand that the defunct MABL champion Indians had players do this. Most managers recognize the principle: "You pay, you play", especially in the case of good players.
And as I recall didn't we have a combination of wood and aluminum this last season with the fall wood bat league? That ought to satisfy any and all interested MABL players until they are old enough to choose to play in the inferior Sr. League. (The fall finale game had a 2 to 1 score. That had to really excite the spectators.)
This poll appears to be a ploy to rubber stamp the use of wood. If a final deciding vote can't be avoided thru the team managers, and stressing the aluminum bat history and the athleticism of MABL, which distinguishes it from the Sr. League, then it should be petitioned by the players under 25 that only they be permitted to vote for all wood or all aluminum. This would yield a majority vote, and I bet a different outcome than the one headed for now. This exclusion of 25 and over makes sense since these guys have the options cited above.
Aluminum moves us closer to major league baseball, and wood moves us closer to little league baseball. Let the Sr. League with it aged leadership enjoy its fantasies, while MABL does what it has to do to keep from becoming a junior branch of the Sr. League. MABL can spare some of our 25 and over players to help the Sr. League survive and thrive, and even maintain their illusion that the "old guys" are beating up on the young guys in the annual all-star game. What MABL can't afford is to compromise its identity. If wood was never seen these last 12 years as a viable part of MABL's future, why is it now? Were MABL players and leadership stupid all those years - or have they just now become too old in their thinking to realize that those were probably by most standards great years of exciting baseball.
(I won't be voting. I don't want to give this poll any more validity than it deserves. None of my team mates, or any other MABL players I have communicated with in the past have indicated that they wanted a poll for the purpose of switching to wood.)
thanks for the information. but come on admit-fees are going to go up about $100 per player on top of the normal fees. That still puts the leauge avg at $362.00. you dont think that is alot of money? i know a few guys that wont be back if that happens.
Wow! I don't know where to start.
1 & 2) George and Mr. X - The idea to switch to wood is not to separate the Men from the boys but rather to play baseball the way it was meant to be. There will be still be plenty of dink shots, texas leaguers, etc...just for different reasons. Nor was the idea brought up to garner state or national attention for our league. There are plenty of regional and national teams still playing with metal.
3) Drew - IMO the league should stay with aluminum or go to wood. Playing games with both will only increase the costs since you have to have both. It is a fact, hitting with wood is NOT as easy as hitting with metal BUT if you practice with it, you get more comfortable. Offensive stats will suffer and pitching stats will improve. From my limited experience playing non-conference wood bat games and wood bat tournaments, the quality of baseball is not reduced to coach pitch or tee ball.
4) Drew - See above about recognized / respected.
5) Mr. Smith - Wow, I don't know where $400 to play came from? Last year it cost $262.50 per player to play in the league based on a 16 man roster. If you have lost a player / teammate because a manager in the league has recruited him then I would contact the league commissioner. If you can't trust him, then contact our national president. 1 player does not make a team, it takes 9.10, 11+ to get the job done over a long haul. It takes many years to get a good team starting from scratch...we started off 0-23. This is NOT about the Knights and I wish I charged $500 per player...Christmas would be a whole lot better this year for my family! Once again, where did $400 come form?
6) Nutz - Your comments and concerns are legitimate. My suggestion to help keep the costs down, is to purchase a brett bat or composite if we change to wood. Yes, it will set you back between $50-$100 but it should last at least 1 season and possibly two. If you look at the cost of an aluminum bat that lasts 2-3 years, the price is comparable. If we switch to wood, we are looking ways to keep the cost to a minimum at the player level.
7) Mr. Smith - I would ask you to talk to them about # of games and what is included in the league fee. It is not CHEAP to play baseball but I have checked with a lot of the leagues in Ohio and we are on par with most leagues. The only leagues I can find with a lower per game cost are one's with a field(s) that are being used at little or no cost. If you still feel the fees to play baseball are too high then do something about it. Get involved, come to the meetings, work the fundraisers, make a difference! Man, the league fee issue is getting a little old. Do the math in your head...umpires, fields, balls, national registration fees, insurance, t-shirts, all-star games, awards, league party, scholarship awards, charitable donations, not to mention the misc expenses that come up.
8) Wildcat - You are correct, good contact is good contact, doesn't matter if it's wood or aluminum. I'm not a good hitter, but I love the challenge of hitting with wood. No, the league fees are not guaranteed to increase by $100 per player if we move to wood.
Our league, although not minor league or semi-pro, is not a recreational league. It is not the same as softball, flag football, volleyball, etc. You cannot just get together and play pick up baseball on a consistent basis. If that is what you are looking for then I would suggest softball or to start your own league.
The poll on the website is NOT the end all to be all. Charles was just looking to get a general consensus from all of the players, not just the guys who voted at the league party.
I voted for wood bats because I enjoy the challenge of making better contact. I understand that the root of my desire is driven by pride but I simply do not get any satisfaction by hitting a small piece of the ball yet getting a base hit because the other team can't field a hard chopper. Any good hitter can tell you that good contact is good contact no matter what bat he is using so lets cut the rest of the garbage out of our games and by doing so eliminate the 25 run scores.
Also, can anyone confirm that our fee will raise $100 if we go to wood?
i have spoken to people in other leauges-wood bats ones. They laugh at me when i tell them how much we pay here in columbus to play. and now we are about to raise it again almost 30% because of wood bats. You might be rich nutz but most the guys i played with this year had problems coming up with $250 to play. I like wood bats dont get me wrong-I just dont think with the way leauge fees are now-that most the guys in our leuage cant afford it. We all cant be doctors like you nutz! I love this game and will play it what ever i half to do-But for the love of GOD. cant we keep this somewhat managable? who knows what the leauge fees will be like next year without the wood bats-im sure it will go up either way.
I just don't see any logic in the "We are men", "this is a man's game" argument. It sounds like a bunch of overblown machismo to me. Again, we're trying to fix something that isn't broken. --- This is plain and simple --- There are 10 people on a baseball field, 9 on defense and one hitter. The only person who benefits from wooden bats is the pitcher. OUTFIELDERS: bring a book, you'll be doing a lot of standing. I think a lot of people are letting their macho egos get in the way of pragmatic, common sense.
Some points. Before I get to those, I should say that some of my thoughts are probably different than they would be before I played in the fall wood bat league..
$400 dollars to play 24 baseball games is expensive to some, and a bargain to others. It's all how you manage your money. The money is a weak excuse to me. If you don't want to spend $400 to play fine, but 90% of the people who say COMABL is expensive say that spend $400 on something over the course of a year, even if it is beer , CDs, or clothes. Ask your self how important baseball is to you. I am not rich, but since baseball is my number hobby, I can afford it. It is a priority to me, obviously after my mortgage and car payment, but ahead of beer, movies, concerts, gambling, etc.
-Sponsors help too when it comes to cost
-I love hitting too, but I am a grown man. For people who love to hit and have fun, there are quite a few slow pitch softball leagues out there. I don't like striking out and getting jammed, but the reason I play baseball in the COMABL is the competition and the challenge.
D Collins says what most people love about baseball is hitting. I am going to go out on a limb and take a wild guess- Collins, you are hitter. He failed to mention the part about, lower ERAS, more Ks, potential no hitters, lower slugging percentages, more double plays. He did mention less runners on base, lower slugging and batting averages, less bombs.
Well, I know some people that these proposed changes we are commenting on might help them enjoy the game more. Maybe you have heard of them, they stand 60'6 from home plate and throw try to throw the ball over it and not let it get hit too hard. THEY ARE CALLED PITCHERS!!! What about the pitchers who can't get out of the 5th inning because hitters who have no business fighting off curveballs and hitting doubles and homers raises their pitch counts. What about the balls you get fooled on and fist over the shortstop that should have left you leaving the batters box with a 3 inch piece of wood in your hand and the other 30 inch laying in the infield. I saw some sick stuff in the fall league, 19 K games, shutouts, hit and runs, bunts. I am a position player too. I play to hit. I don't like pitchers. They are like wide receivers. Arrogant divas. I don't even like the ones on my own team! But your argument is so one sided I have to present the other side. I think there was one sentence about pitchers.
In the fall league. Our 9 inning games averaged 2:15. It was nice. I play on a team with a strong offense, it's fun scoring runs, but like some of you said, we have lives. I can't do anything around the house on Sundays because after two 15-9 games with multiple pitching changes in 88F weather by the time I get home I want to go to bed. (run on sentence I know)
I think the only concerns that some players may not ever hit another home run unless they get a hold of Victor Conte, or the cost issue.
We are grown men playing in a mens league. If I decide I don't want to work hard and battle anymore, but I REALLY hit .550 and drop bombs like Parker and Pantoja, and I am not good enough to do it with aluminum, if my feelings and ego get hurt and I lose sleep at night because I am batting 100 points less, I can play softball for a lot cheaper. I am not afraid of competition. If I feel need to work on my wood bat swing, I will practice and work on GETTING BETTER. I can deal with a lower slugging percentage.
The cost concern is a factor. I know my fall team broke 6-8 bats in 8 games. I am curious how many bats we will break in the summer. Hitters will have more time to practice, but the pitching will be deeper. A lot of the hitters in the fall play a lot of baseball, more than the casual guys, but bats were still getting broken from time to time.
Anyways my two cents, I am out.
i dont like the idea of paying 400 bucks to play a dam game. if we use wood bat that adds 100 to our inividual cost. there are teams in this leaguge who already have an edge by them stealing all the good talent out there(YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) Now the same managers want an edge because there players "so called" no how to hit with a wood bat. Get over yourselves!!! This is the COMABL. And i could care less if the Knights are reconized state wide. If you want to play with those clowns and pay 500 bucks then do so. just dont drag the rest of the leauge down with you. Sometimes i think you guys running things have to much free time-in todays econmy how the hell do we pay $400 bucks per player?
What's all this talk about being "respected" and "recognized". By who? And who cares? Listen, I have a day job. Most people in this league have day jobs. I'm not playing in this league to get drafted into the pros. Most people in this league like coming to the ballpark on Sundays and getting some cuts in.
We're trying to fix something that isn't broken.
Exactly who are we trying to get "recognized" by, and why?
We need to set our egos aside and realize that point of this league is to have fun and enjoy baseball. There is a reason we are not professionals.
The following is a letter I wrote to Charles:
I just wanted to weigh in on the wood vs. metal discussion. I've been thinking about it for a while now, and I think I've come up with a pretty compelling argument for using both metal and wood. I think we should use wood bats for double-headers and metal bats for single games. I’ll be as brief as possible in my explanation.
I think if you ask people what they enjoy most about playing baseball is, most would answer, “hitting”. I know I would. That being said, I don’t believe that significantly LOWERING overall batting averages, on-base percentages, slugging percentages, runs scored, RBI’s and virtually every other hitting category is a good way to INCREASE the enjoyment of the league.
Using exclusively wood bats would do just that.
I understand that there is something very novel and exciting about the crack of the wooden bat – just like the pros. I just think we need to be careful what we ask for, because we might get it. Remember, there is a reason we’re not pros.
Using all wood bats would mean fewer runners on base, less balls in play, more strikeouts, more standing around on defense (especially in the outfield) and shorter games. This is made evident in college vs. pro hitting statistics. And while this is good for pitchers in our league, I don’t believe it’s good for the other 8 players on the field.
My proposal is to use wood bats for double-headers and metal bats for single games. We all know that double-header days are long days – sometimes 6-7 hours at the ballpark. We could decrease the amount of time it takes to play the games by using wood bats for the two seven-inning games.
This proposal allows hitters to still have the advantages that metal bats bring, while still experiencing the nostalgia and tradition that make wood bats so appealing.
In conclusion, I think it is a mistake to change the league to using wood bats exclusively because the game would slow down significantly. I like the crack of the bat as much as anyone else, but I also like having the ball in play. I think we need to be pragmatic. I believe a compromise is the best decision.
Thanks for your time.
Drew Collins – Colts #8
I like the idea of wood. It is time for our league to be recognized state wide for the teams who are playing well. Noone will recognize a team swinging metal bats.
Its time to separate the men from the boys. No more dink shots with aluminum. Time to step up and swing the wood.