JT - Christ also "threw" the money changers out of the temple. Christ also destroyed many people for their sins. Your ignorance of the Bible is plain. Christ also said "Though claiming to be wise, they became fools. God delivered them to sexual impurity as they followed the lusts of their hearts and dishonored their bodies with one another. They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, because they did not think it worthwhile to keep knowing God fully, God delivered them to degraded minds to perform acts that should not be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, and viciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, haughty, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to their parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's just requirement-that those who practice such things deserve to die-they not only do these things but even applaud others who practice them. And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things....................now go ahead and twist God's holy word to fit your feeble minded, fleshly driven thoughts, desires and beliefs. Yes, man does a fine job of governing themselves. Our world is in great shape!
Mike - 15 years ago
I am very proud of our iowa today. This day was an eventuality but i expected it to happen in about 3 years time. On a more serious note, i think a bill similar to prop 8 would come up and and may pass, but i hope the college towns (ames and iowa city) as well as des moines would come together to overturn the possible reversal of this court decision. Even if this court decision gets reversed in short term, the tides have turned and would expect the state to approve gay marriage by 2015.
After reading some of the comments here, i would like to end with a quote from Gandhi: "I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ"
JT - 15 years ago
Also, to all the people on here that claim to be christians, haven't you read the bible? Doesn't Jesus teach you that if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also? Well Iowa just bitch slapped you, now what?
JT - 15 years ago
Good for them!!! I'm straight and fully support gay marriage. Some people on this board really make me nauseous. I bet you these are the same people that think that Blacks should be segregated by sitting at the back of buses and women should not be allowed to vote. Shame on you!!! Gay marriage has absolutely no effect on you, so why is it any of your business that two people that are in love get married? This is a major step forward for Iowa, I hope other state follow as well.
jack Meoffe - 15 years ago
So now ass-lovers, cock suckers, pedophiles, homo-humpers, dykes, bulls, fags, low-lifes, scumbags, animal lovers, queers, and lesbo's can all conjugate their perverted sexual practices in the great state of i-o-wa!!!!! This isn't love it is sex by tha beasts in the field that the court says is equitable to God's law concerning marriage of a man and a woman! Not larry and steve; or doris and cleeve! So grab yoru dildos, and your gaudy wear, insemiante your cows, and your fem queers, send us your homo's, fags, and queers - to iowa, to iowa, let us not tarry - we might miss boning larry!
I am so proud of my state today! Man, I would have never thought that Iowa would legalize gay marraige! I am so happy we moved foward into the 21st century. I'm straight, but I believe that it is a human right to love whoever you want, whether it's a man and woman, woman and woman, or man and man.
This is a great day for our state.
-Katie in Bancroft, Iowa
Jeremy - 15 years ago
One more thing: is it not just easier to accept people for who they are rather than fight against them? At this time of recession and war, ought we not to band together and support our country and our people rather than divide ourselves because of some family beliefs? Its 2009. There are way more important things to deal with.
Jeremy - 15 years ago
I understand conservatives saying that their rights have been trampled, but I am from Canada, and gay marriage has been legal here since 2003. All these opponents who say it is 'destroying heterosexual marriages', I wanna seee the proof. not even ONE marriage has been destroyed here. rather, more people are married and happy, and the divorce rate, including homosexuals, has plateaud, rather than kept increasing. if people are happy and are not hurting anyone else, how can these Christians who are supposed to love evryone according the Golden Rule of the Bible, tell them they cannot do something. Shouldn't they wanna share joyous things with everyone rather than strip a certain group of those things?
Julia - 15 years ago
@MIKE ABOUT POLYGAMY
Yes, what makes us human is our ability to reject our primeval tendencies but we are still animals, we have the same brain chemistry of other animals. When scared all animals release adrenaline, when happy all brains release endorphins. But not all brains are wired the same. I may assume that you are attracted to the opposite sex (females) and that when a attractive female looks your way your hypothalamus (part of brain that controls emotion) releases chemicals that make you feel attracted to said lady. Now, let's say you have a girlfriend already when this happens, you can suppress those emotions, this is what makes you human. However, when you were single this happened when you saw said girlfriend and you worked to form a relationship. Well, homosexuals have a brain wired differently, only when they see someone of the same sex does their hypothalamus react, you can take a gay guy and put him in front of an attractive naked chick and he will feel nothing but awkward. NOW, Polygamy, has absolutely nothing to do with feelings but culture. Harems in India, concubines in Asia, polygamy in Mormonism. There is a pattern here, one man, many women and usually treated as property. There has never been (to my knowledge) of a female with multiple husbands. If multiple people can marry then 5 women and 7 men should be allowed to marry each other, but then are the husbands considered in homosexual wed-lock? People don't have a 'natural' chemical desire for polygamy, it's something they are brought up to think is right. Nobody looks at a room of friends and gets a boner thinking how great if they were all married together. I'm all for homosexual marriage between two consenting adults but not the dominating of females by a male.
Well then - 15 years ago
After reading all the hate-riddled anti-gay comments here, I am truly sad to call myself an American.
Jenn - 15 years ago
I am a christian woman and I fully support same-sex marriage...congrats Iowa...I don't believe that one religion can impose its beliefs on others ( I wouldn't want the mormons taking away my coffee!). But in seriousness...I do believe it is their basic right. My religion is protected, and it is a choice...why does it matter if orientation is a choice?
America is a bunch of hypopcrites...they love to watch Ellen dance around on TV...but wouldn't support her basic rights? Come on folks...remember when the church supported slavery? Many churches are on the wrong side of history on this issue...
Julia - 15 years ago
Congratulations Iowa.
And to those who oppose, you disgust me, you are the kind of people who make me reluctant to be a proud American.
Right to homosexual marriage is between TWO _CONSENTING_ ADULTS. People who are old enough to make their own decisions and do not need hicks in the woods shoving a bible between them.
A majority of my friends are homosexual and have many more homosexual acquaintances. But I do not know a single pedophile and as far as polygamy goes, the only people I see with multiple partners are heterosexuals (mostly in the form of cheating on a spouse).
And you bigots really need to get off your "moral" majority horse. As part of a minority (Atheist) I would be extremely upset if my rights were limited because a majority of people believed in magic (getting off topic).
And what's with this taught in schools business? Public schools don't even talk about heterosexual marriage except in health when told to wait to have sex until marriage. Which if a child is homosexual and thinks this is a good idea but is never allowed to marry, why, doesn't that just encourage them to just be promiscuous since choosing a life partner will never benefit them socially, politically, or financially?
Religious arguments, slippery-slop arguments, and taught-in-school arguments are invalid, so to all those ignorant bigots out there, GET THE F OUT OF MY FREE COUNTRY (ps, stop breeding too, the world's over populated as it is, we don't need 15 of your bigot offspring buying hummers and being a-holes)
ARRRRRRGH - 15 years ago
Just saw this. SNERK
Top Ten Reasons to Make Gay Marriage Illegal
01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all like many of the principles on which this great country was founded; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of marriages like Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
aw - 15 years ago
Happy 2009 everybody! i mean, this is america where many ethnicities, races, cultures and sexualities exsist. that's what makes America great! i'd love to say we all live in peace, but that is not the case. i really think people should be more open-minded. i don't think gender matters. it just isn't fair how people treat gays today. if you're in love, who cares what's in your pants? i am going to get married. i will. no matter what it takes, i am going to get married someday to my same-sex partner. it would be a shame if i had to leave the country to do it. i support this decision 110%. and i hate the hypocrites that say it's against the bible, when they sin everyday. everyone is a sinner, and i don't even believe in god. being happy is never a sin though. and if you believe god is the creator, then why did he make homosexuals? i am so glad this law happened. and i hope that it will stay this way. SUPPORT LOVE!!
ARRRRRRGH - 15 years ago
WTF is up with you fundie 'tards going on like people think that talking about "God this, God that," and "the Bible this, the Bible that," constitutes an argument? LOL WUT?
I'm personally thrilled that some family friends can now get married - they've been together monogamously for at least 15 years, been kicked out of several churches and volunteer organizations by morons, and dedicated their lives to helping people, and now they can have all the legal rights of heterosexual couples who squirt out children and sap welfare from the government.
You guys also know that women would have to marry their rapists and were married off as pieces of property as prepubescent children to husbands who had other wives, and what we think of as "traditional" marriage came about because the melding of religion and government was convenient, rite? ...rite?
(and that there were other religions and governmental systems before the abrahamic and western ones?)
(and that teh ghey won't kill you or your kiddies, provided you aren't a crap parent that tries to terrify them?)
(and neither will exposure to east asian religion, atheism, agnosticism, etc, even at tender young ages, again, provided you aren't a crap parent?)
I bet y'all are afraid of Shakespeare and Chaucer. Maybe even Sartre. Damn.
Blue Fielder - 15 years ago
Lots of ignorant homophobes and bigots here. Gay marriage isn't the end of all life as we know it, it isn't legalizing pedophilia or bestiality (look up "meaningful consent" and educate your ignorant selves), and you have no real argument against it other than selfishness, ignorance, and bigotry. For the good of the country, shut up and let people have rights.
Then again, you are hateful little children throwing the world's longest tantrum; I daresay I'm wasting my time trying to convince you of anything factual.
brittany j. - 15 years ago
ok people who discriminate against homosexuals, you need to get your head on straight, thier (we're) people too... everyone loves someone, everyone wants to love someone, does it really have to matter who, or what sex they are? i dont think so... and to the people talkin about what they would do if their children, or child turned out to be gay, most of the families i think would support thier child after all the child came from them... i know if my children turned out to be gay, i would be proud of thier decision, and for them talkin to me about it... i would not be like get out of my house... i would honor them for what thier doing...Secondly, people people what if you straight people were born gay? would you want people to make fun of you? or would you fight for equality? id fight hard, like i am...
I Am Proud Of Iowa... Congrats...!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark - 15 years ago
I just have to laugh at those of you who are apoplectic about this. Get used to it. State by state, same-sex marriage will eventually be legal across the country.
I guess that means you only have to go through this 47 more times. :)
And by the way, sexual orientation is fixed. It can't be changed. You like what you like. There's plenty of evidence that proves sexual orientation is something you're born with.
Dean Andersen - 15 years ago
We need to exercise caution when using the bible to justify prejudice legislation and discrimination. Many Christians support full and equal rights for lesbians and gay. Jesus teachings say nothing about homosexuality, but much about the sin of self-righteousness. In fact the word homosexuality never appeared in the bible until 1943! Scholars vary widely on what they think the terms used prior to 1943 actually meant. Most agree it probably meant Temple prostitution and homosexual rape which often occurred during war when one army overthrew another. Homosexuality of a loving, committed nature is simple not addressed.
Scientific evidence supports genetics as a primary cause of homosexuality. Klinefelter's Syndrome is one example of many of genetics playing a crucial role in sexual abiguity. A condition where they genitals are not fully differentiated between male or female and the child is somewhere in between.
Since genes play a large role in sexual expression and sexual orientation, it must be assumed that like race, it is part of God's plan. Maybe gays were place here to test our ability to have compassion for those who are different? In any case, it is wise to follow Jesus teachings and err on the side of love, compassion, and fairness, rather than prejudice, judgement, and self-righteousness.
The judges who ruled on this case are not activist judges, but rather professionals who ruled based on the letter of the law. American laws that uphold fairness and equality. Laws that protect ALL of us. Luckily these judges had the courage to uphold the law regardless of public opinion, and stand by the very core values of fairness and equality that this country was built on. I am proud of Iowa and her judges for doing the right thing and upholding these core American values and core Christian values. Jesus taught love, not prejudice. Jesus taught, compassion, not hate. Jesus talk fairness, not discrimination.
God bless Iowa and her judges for doing the right thing. And please to those of you who claim to be Christians, stop using a beautiful religion of love to condone discrimination, prejudice, or hate. It time for all Christians to accept responsibility for the roles we have played in sexism, racism, classism, heterosexism, and xenophobia and repent for our self-righteousness and reach out to others with compassion and fairness. That is what Jesus would do.
Tom - 15 years ago
Good for Iowa! In 20 years we'll look back and realize just how wrong it was to discriminate based on sexuality, just like we have with racism.
Mike - 15 years ago
By the way folks, issues of racial equality and gay marriage are not the same. I would take the trouble to lay out the argument in support of the assertion, but I doubt anyone would actually respond to the argument. They simply would reply with another assertion. As for comparing animals with humans. Of course the analogy is not meant to offer a complete correspondance. Human have the capacity for thought to act beyond their animal natures. We are more than animals and yet, less than the angels. And, we are clearly not gods, although much of the last 100+ years has been spent in trying to make it so. No, equal protection of the laws does not entail the right for two consenting adults to do anything they please. Finally, for those who don't think polygamy would follow, on equal protection grounds, from gay marriage; please explain: Why should number be a limitation on consenting adults getting marriad to each other??? I hope to see a response. Should be interesting.
friendly Iowan - 15 years ago
I guess some people don't get it. 2 CONSENTING ADULTS.....I guess I don't see where animals come into play except in your mind.....Have you visited your doctor to discuss this?
Andrew - 15 years ago
"...I am simply amazed how the people supporting this decision are content to avoid making or responding to any real arguments..."
And I am equally amazed at how any Iowan can feel anything other than enormous pride, especially given the state's history of setting trends and doing the right and fair and egalitarian thing. From abolishing slavery 17 years before the Supreme Court continued to make it legal (!) in 1837... through a history of supporting women's and racial equality... and now this. My hat is off to Iowa. You do the US proud.
Mike - 15 years ago
I am simply amazed how the people supporting this decision are content to avoid making or responding to any real arguments. They simply assert this and that. Like, "It is simply a equal protection issue." Well, the law is not so simple and the judicial construction in this case is legally wrong.
GooRoo - 15 years ago
Congratulations Iowa! Thanks for making the sane choice. Reading the hatred and homophobia in some of these comments is sickening. I'm guessing Jesus is also sickened by those of you using his name to promote hatred and bigotry. As a straight, happily married, agnostic women, I am proud of Iowa. I hope that soon, any 2 consenting adults can celebrate their commitment in the same way I was allowed to, in EVERY state of our nation. Gays are people too, hard as that may be for some of you to see. One of the most loving weddings I have ever been to was between two, deeply in love men. My marriage is stronger for witnessing their commitment.
el polacko - 15 years ago
this decision is a simply case of finding for equal protection under the law for all citizens. all the rest of this blather about religions and citing of highly dubious statistics is pointless... and the rank hatred expressed by many here illustrate why advances in equality are made in the courts and not by a popular vote. thank you, iowa supremes, for coming to your fair and unanimous decision regarding civil marriage rights.
Mike - 15 years ago
Matt; your construction of the statement stretches the boundaries of credibility. Your position would be supported if the statement said "sexual orientation" in the list of those things that cannot restrict marriage. However, it doesn't do that. Men and women simply means and women have a right to marry. Now, at a time, when people could think clearly, the statements meaning would be obvious. But, we are the inheritors of the mental errors of the totalitarion century and while Hitler and Stalin lost their regimes; their style of distorted thinking survives.
Judicial tyranny is the official form of government in today's America. Our Republic has vanished in the span of a single generation. The people's right to vote is a meaningless formality. The Constitution as written by the founders is a meaningless piece of paper. KILL ALL THE LAWYERS AND JUDGES.
Sean Crowell - 15 years ago
I don't care for gay people. Nor do I care if they choose to love each other. Where is the problem?
Matt - 15 years ago
@Mike: It doesn't say "men to women", it says "men and women".
Mike - 15 years ago
Matt; Think about what??? The quote doesn't support gay marriage.
Matt - 15 years ago
Also, Mike, the question is how are they related?
Matt - 15 years ago
@Mike: Think again. "Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution." - Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16
Mike - 15 years ago
Matt; How are they unrelated? On what grounds? Especially polygamy?? As for the other stuff and never said anything about it and I don't believe it. Homosexuals are persons subject to the same rights and laws of other persons. Marriage, however, is not a right that is natural for two men or two women, and certainly not entailing a right to have children, which denys them, by definition a mother or father.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Mike: WHY DO YOU BRING UP POLYGAMY AND PEDOPHILIA? THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED! Also, homosexuality isn't socially "normal", but it certainly isn't a freakish abomination deserving of burning in hell.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Bravo116: Well obviously it isn't just the Christians who disapprove. I know that all of the Abraham religions have something against homosexuality in their scripture. Nonetheless, I don't see how the G&L community are at fault here. The religious ones were the ones to disapprove something that didn't really have a negative effect on their own lives, or any lives for that matter.
Mike - 15 years ago
Kimmy; does a child created through technical means to a lesbian couple have a right to know who their biological father? Does a child technically created for two men have a right to know their biological mother????
Mike - 15 years ago
Matt; Human beings cannot put themselves outside of natural laws without undertaking create risks. The human brain is capable of developing all kinds of devices and arguments to free themselves of constraints. And, not all uses of our brains contradict the moral natural laws. So, there is nothing wrong in using medicines to cure disease. Nor, is it necessarily wrong to use medical interventions to help them conceive. But, this is an exception to the rule and recognizes something is wrong. However, gay marriage will lead to the argument that these procedures are normal, increasing their use and eroding any notion of the importance of gender roles in raising children. And, there is no logical defense to the argument that a man and a consenting child should be able to get married. Or, even more compelling, on equal protection grounds, what can be the objection to polygamy????
Kimmy - 15 years ago
@Mike - take note...homosexual people do procreate. Perhaps not in the traditional way, but they do have families, raise them and they turn out great just as often as heterosexual families.
Bravo116 - 15 years ago
@ Matt: And I am saying that don't just assume it is just the Hillbilly, Redneck, American, Christians who believe that marriage between to men or women is bad, and that they are living in the Dark Ages, and need to live in the 21st Century. Regardless of religion the G & L community have made it a moral and religious issue by pushing it the last 10 years. The Christians never did. This idea was floated past various groups until it started seeing national attention. All the Christian community is doing is standing up for something we don't agree with or believe in, as am sure you are doing the same.
Kimmy - 15 years ago
It's a great day for Iowa, even if some of the close-minded idiots in this state can't realize it. Any day that freedom to live your life is recognized in America - it is a day to celebrate. Ironic that most of these people that are anti-gay marriage are the same ones who will vehemently argue THEIR right to own a gun. So here is a very very simple solution to all of you who are against gay marriage....Don't marry a gay person! (trust me they don't want you anyways!)
I think some people forget that part of the idea of marriage is the commitment to be with one person--and only one person -- for the rest of your life. You would prefer that someone not make this commitment? And how would this affect YOU?
Anyhow - this married hetro woman is very proud of Iowa today.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Mike: People are a different animal, seeing as how we have the most advanced brains out of all of them.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Bravo116: I'm just saying that age doesn't really matter in this case.
Bravo116 - 15 years ago
Yeah, but I don't remember the last time I ever saw a gay getting sold off away from his family, or whipped in a field, or beaten, or hung. Please don't compare the two, you do a disservice to those who have.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Niximus: It's not like the Christians' lives are being affected as such.
Mike - 15 years ago
All tyranny is founded on the simple principle of the big lie. The big lie in this case is homosexuality is normal. It is not. It cannot be normal for two individuals to marry who can not procreate. If this situation was normal the species could not survive. Homosexuality is an outlier situation. The core cell of society is the family that can create the next generation and raise them with the benefit of male and female influence. Any statistical arguement about divorce rates and so on are not relevant. That we fall short of the best does not mean we must settle for the worst. And the worst in the gay marriage situation is creating the norm of artificially creating children and operating under the big lie that the child does not have a mother or father. This also violates the main ethical directive that no person should be a means to another persons ends. Every child has a natural right to have a mother and father or the ability to find out who their real parents are. Even adoption, in most situations will allow this. Gay couples will operate under the fantasy that this is not necessary, thus denying their children of their birthright. In short; the decision is nonsense.
Laura - 15 years ago
Iowa's decision makes me proud to be a midwesterner- which isn't always the case. Our communities, our country and our world will be a much better place if we can all accept others that are different and provide them the same rights and safety in our world.
Thank you Iowa justices for reminding Iowa and the country that being gay doesn't make you less of person.
This is a positive step towards a world where gay kids and adults won't be spit on, harrassed, or assaulted but rather just be kids and adults.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Bravo116: Slavery's an even older institution, but that's not exactly around much anymore.
Niximus - 15 years ago
RE Matt:"But you most certainly shouldn't assume that it is morally right to shove discrimination into the law THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE." --That's funny, because I was just going to say the same thing to you. Teaching it in schools, or on TV or in Books and magazines, would be discrimination to the people who don't believe its acceptable. The door swings both ways.
Nick Brady - 15 years ago
This is a good news
Bravo116 - 15 years ago
@Matt: You make the assumption that only Christians believe this is wrong. You are talking about one of the oldest institutions ever founded on this earth. (Marriage of a Man and Women) It is founded in almost every historical scriptural writ.
Bravo116 - 15 years ago
Douglas, thank you for being so courteous, and maybe we can agree to disagree. As I can only speak for myself, I just don't see it that way.
Of course I would want my daughter to be happy and of course I would want her to be with someone for the rest of her life, but when it comes down to it, it is still a sin whether its legal or not. I will love her and I will always love her, and she will always be welcome in my house, and if the person she is with, treats her well and puts a smile on her face, I would be satisfied. She has her freedom to do what she wants but, I have my freedom to still hate the sin, and love the sinner and I always will. I will always stand up for what I feel is right, but I will never do so with malice or hatred. As, I am sure you feel the same way.
Matt - 15 years ago
"Iowa-leader of the decline and demise of family values. Hey, meet my mom and mom or meet my dad and dad. Get real. When same sex can reproduce then I'll ponder it. Right now, I'm not very proud to be an Iowan. It's another example of our legislators not voting for the constituants wishes. We'll know who not to vote for in the next election, should we have another one. It would be great for Iowa to be a leader in something, but same sex marriages........what a disappointment." What's truly a disappointment is that people actually think like you do. LET'S SELFISHLY THROW AWAY THE AMERICAN PRINCIPLES OF EQUALITY FROM PEOPLE BECAUSE I DON'T APPROVE OF THEM AND THEY LOOK FUNNY.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Bravo116: The point is that America isn't supposed just cater to Christianity, it's supposed to give equality to the people. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! I don't mind you believing what you want, but you most certainly shouldn't assume that it is morally right to shove discrimination into the law THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE. B|
Iowa-leader of the decline and demise of family values. Hey, meet my mom and mom or meet my dad and dad. Get real. When same sex can reproduce then I'll ponder it. Right now, I'm not very proud to be an Iowan. It's another example of our legislators not voting for the constituants wishes. We'll know who not to vote for in the next election, should we have another one. It would be great for Iowa to be a leader in something, but same sex marriages........what a disappointment.
Douglas - 15 years ago
@ Bravo, I respect that answer.
I just would like to ask, wouldn't you want equal rights for all your children?
Bravo116 - 15 years ago
I'll answer it Doug: Just because she chose a lifestyle I don't agree with doesn't mean I love her any less. However, I would still expect her to live by the same standards and morals that I taught her as long as she is in my house. And even then I would expect her to live by them but, she has her freedom to do what she wants. Just because she says she it gay, doesn't mean she has to sexually active and promiscuous. Hopefully she'll take into account the way she was raised when making decisions in life, and I would expect her to do that with every decision.
Dean Andersen - 15 years ago
Another Smart, caring, loving Iowan who grew up in a small town and loves the fact that our state is sitting the standard for fairness and equality! YOU GO IOWA! May God bless our state for having the courage and insight to promote compassion, fairness, and equality.
And no, I'm not Gay or Lesbian ;-D - only interested in JUSTICE!!
Douglas - 15 years ago
@Justin
What if one of your girls turns out to be a lesbian? What then?
Justin - 15 years ago
Douglas, will be glad to answer your question when I return home. Going out with the wife and two girls. Will return later tonight. :-)
Bravo116 - 15 years ago
@Matt, and I am still trying to find your point, other than a random insult every other post. My point being for those trying to distort Christ and his teachings of love. We can love the sinner and still hate the sin. I know many gay people and I don't think any less of them. I don't agree with their lifestyle and them parading it around the community in a minority trying to justify it. Christians should love all but, they don't have to agree with their lifestyle, especially if they see it as a sin.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Bravo116: You're missing the point entirely.
Douglas - 15 years ago
Okay... Here is a checklist for all the "Christian" people out there.
ONE: Do any of you "christ-like" individuals actually know any homosexuals?
TWO: Are you any of the following A)Racist B) Sexist C) Homophobic D) All of the above?
THREE: Have you advanced your education further than Middle School? Many of your reasonings makes me question your logic skills and intelligence.
FOUR: Have you actually fully read the teachings of Jesus Christ, or would you like to THINK you have for your personal image?
FIVE: When was the last time you went to church? (Easter and Christmas don't count.)
SIX: How this will affect you in any way shape or form?
SEVEN: What was the founding father's goals for this country? (Oh that's right, Equality for all.)
EIGHT: When did you ever CHOOSE to be heterosexual?
NINE: How would you feel if people were able to vote on the legitimacy of YOUR marriage?
TEN: What sexual orientation was Jesus? He never married, lusted, or procreated. Tell me. It never says.
The passing of the Iowa Supreme Court's decision will go down in the history books, for the good.
I think you Christians should worry more about the Ten Commandments, because we all know you follow them strictly and obediently.
Bravo116 - 15 years ago
This is not a matter of Love and Hate. This is a matter of Right vs. Wrong. Jesus Christs loves all. "Love the sinner, hate the sin". Christ is willing to welcome all unto him, if and only if, they repent of their sins and forsake them. “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Rev. 3:20. Christ does not just accept us for who we are but rather if we have humbled ourselves before him and repented of our sins, he is there waiting at the door but it is up to us to open it and let him into our lives. But these words and principles are only true if you believe in god and in the Bible. Justifying a sinful lifestyle through a man made government does not change how God still views the sin.
Before criticizing the court or the justices for "activism", I encourage you all to read the full text of the opinion. The (unanimous) majority did an excellent job exploring the various constitutional reasons requiring inclusive marriage. While you may disagree that it was the "right" thing to do, judges do not rule on the basis of their conscious, but rather the requirements of law. In this instance, it would have been against Iowa's constitution to find any other way.
I applaud the justices for their fair application of state law.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Justin: You have made my day.
Matt - 15 years ago
"Matt, most on this page are obviously smarter than you!" Says the one who didn't say anything intelligent.
Jumpin' Jehovah - 15 years ago
I would like to hear a Patty or a Justin or someone with similar beliefs to fill in the blanks in this sentence: "If a same-sex couple is permitted to marry somewhere in the state of Iowa, then my marriage will be harmed in this way [... fill in the blank here...] by it, because [.... fill in the blank here ...]."
cornholer - 15 years ago
Matt, most on this page are obviously smarter than you!
Justin - 15 years ago
Thomas - Have you ever read the 1972 Gay Rights Platform; their "mission" so to speak. 1. Repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent. This is extremely disturbing. Ever been to a "pride" March Thomas? I encourage you to do so. Urinating in public. Sexual acts in streets. Nudity; all in front of children. Go sometime. You will really see when the homosexual desires are let loose, when this spirit is let loose, it is repulsive and extremely sad. 2. Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage. This will destroy families and ultimately, communities, and ultimately our nation. They don't want to just practice in the privacy of their homes. If that was the case, there would be nothing to fight. People live in sin everyday, as sad as that is. But they want to flaunt it in your face, they parade it in the streets, they are starting to force it into schools to teach it as normal; there are laws trying to be passed right now that if a preacher preaches that it's sin, he can be arrested. Is this right Thomas. Schools have never ever taught against homosexuality, so why all of a sudden force them to try and teach it as normal? The homosexual movement has an underlying agenda that most do not see or believe. They want to remove all traditional notions of sexual morality and replace them with sexual relativism; that when it comes to sex, there's no right or wrong. God created the nucleus of the family for a reason. Children need a mother and a father in there upbringing. Both are very important. When you mess with the natural design of manking that God has created, you will destroy a people and cause anarchy. We now have bisexual restrooms. Is this normal to you? So you're okay with a homosexual man, who burns in his sexual desire to sodomize another male, to go into a restroom with your son, or a young nephew or any other male? Thomas, if you don't stand for truth, what are you made of? Who are you? If you call my beliefs discrimination than you call it what you will. God discriminated against a people in Sodom and Gomorrah for these exact sins. Thomas, do you believe in God? I hope you do. If you do, I hope you fear/respect Him enough to consider His Word that He has given us to enjoy a fulfilling life while on earch. I must go. It was truly nice to chat with you Thomas. I hope you have a great weekend. God bless.
Matt - 15 years ago
"5 year olds will now be taught what sodomy is! way to go iowa!" You are obviously a well-educated, sophisticated person with your meaningless blabber. You are so smart!
cornholer - 15 years ago
5 year olds will now be taught what sodomy is! way to go iowa!
Thomas - LT - 15 years ago
Justin - You clearly are a believer, and there isn't anything wrong with that. I will not be able to change what you believe, and for the most part I have no reason to try. Belief isn't the problem, its discrimination. From what you've said despite your beliefs you wouldn't treat a homosexual any different from anyone else, and that is a wonderful thing. You might not agree with the lifestyle, and you may try and warn them of what you feel awaits them, but you don't try and hurt, harass, or demean them for their choices. So, why shouldn't they be allowed to have the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities as the rest of us, including the right to wed.
Justin - 15 years ago
Matt - not being self righteous my friend. Just stating the facts which you seem to not handle very well. MATT, let me smack you in the face or throw cold water on you to wake yourself up. Please show me somewhere in my comments that I stated that I assume that ALL homos rape children and are dispicable people? Where Matt? Quite making assumptions of your own my friend. Never once did I say that. I simply posted facts, facts that homosexuals themselves admitted that were polled. You my friend have said absolutely nothing intelligent in this entire blog. Just childish comments. You're like David Letterman arguing Foreign Affairs.
Dean Andersen - 15 years ago
I grew up in Iowa, and delivered the Des Moines Register for 6 years. I have never been so proud of Iowa as I am today. Iowa is leading the way towards a more compassionate, and understanding American. YOU GO IOWA! I love you and the people in it.
Jumpin' Jehovah - 15 years ago
"God will not bless us as a nation with these beliefs (sin)."
But will God bless us for these sins?:
Unfairness to others
Unequal treatment under the law
Pharisee-like pre-judgment of others
Homophobia
Treating ourselves as superior to others by virtue of our sexuality
If God does not bless us for the sins you listed, which of our sins *does* He bless us for.
Point is, if you subscribe to your belief system, we are all sinners. Which sins have you not committed today, Justin?
RJohnson - 15 years ago
"We did not elect these judges, and so they are not representing the interests of the state, only their own agendas."
Actually, here in Iowa, the Supreme Court Justices do face a retention election. If the voters cast enough ballots to remove the Justice from the bench, he/she is gone.
Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you blather off.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Justin: Being self-righteous doesn't exactly help your argument.
Justin - 15 years ago
Thomas - you are certainly correct on many things you've said. Minute, trivial beliefs, (standards, etc.) are different in one church. However, people in another country who don't believe in Christ/God were still created by him and were still initally instilled with a conscience of what's morally right or wrong. This was and can only be given by God. It's certainly a person's right to say and believe that God's Word isn't the foundation of truth but it will be revealed when Christ comes back that it is. I've never "hated" a homosexual, yelled slurs, damaged property, etc. I would sit down and have lunch with one anytime. But I will still fight for what's right, for what God says in His Word. I'll still fight for my child's future, for my country. God will not bless us as a nation with these beliefs (sin). There are countless stories in the Bible and many examples in our history books of nations falling because of lack of Godly morals. Sadly enough, to lean on time to dispell or prove would be a tragedy as it would be too late. I will not give up. When I stand before my creator, I must be able to say I did my part to warn other souls of the snares and pitfalls of sin, and the destructive end there of.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Truth: But there is the sun. :D
Truth - 15 years ago
Hey All - there is no god. The bible was written by a few nomadic sheep herders. Sorry to burst your little bubble there.
FYI - also, there are no unicorns, no Zeus, no Allah, no Santa, no Tooth Fairy, etc.
Matt - 15 years ago
@Justin: "were you trying to make me upset? I'm not sure of the intent of your uneducated, ignorant, ranting." Trust me, you're a hypocrite. STD's are prevalent EVERYWHERE. Not just homosexuals. And just because some "study" showed that homos are more likely to be pedophiles doesn't mean we should assume that ALL OF THEM RAPE CHILDREN AND ARE DESPICABLE PEOPLE BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW.
Justin - 15 years ago
Jack - I dare you to study His Word. With an honest heart, He will reveal it to you. Don't listen to the intellectual lightweights of society=men. Men will fail you when they lean on their own understanding and wisdom, as we've all seen, but God never fails.
Thomas - LT - 15 years ago
Justin - There are many different philosophical answers to the question that you've put forth (What is morally acceptable and what isn't, to paraphrase) and all of them have there merits and pitfalls, and if your truly interested in learning about them I would suggest taking a class on Moral Philosophy, you may find Divine Command Theory interesting.
Joe L stated that we all have different beliefs, which is true, we all do, even with in your church (assuming you are a church goer) you will find many interpretations of different passages, laws and what have you in scripture. It is very unlikely that someone will agree with you 100% the entirety of your belief structure even if they go to the same church, or are in your family. That said morality differs much more wildly from culture to culture then it does with in your religion, and even so there are certain things that are considered immoral in all or virtually all cultures. One example is murder. Though the definition of what constitutes murder varies the concept of murder is present (near) universally. It is considered wrong in almost all cultures Christian or otherwise, so the fact that we in the United States consider murder a crime can not be attributed to a claim that our nation is founded on God's law. Other nations who do not believe in the Christian god consider murder a crime with out it being God's Law that decreed it.
So, no, I cannot answer your question fully, as there are many ways of theories on how to determine whether an act is moral or not. But I can tell you that God's Law isn't the only method of ruling the list of crimes you mentioned immoral, many other cultures believe those acts to be wrong with out viewing them through the lens of God's Law.
Matt - 15 years ago
@dnitzer: I find it really sad that anyone in this country has been fooled let alone this many people.
Anyways, I find it really nice that we're one step closer to actually fulfilling the age old promise of equality to citizens of America. The US will actually be thought of worldwide as a good place to be at some point. The future's looking brighter. :D
From,
a bisexual Virginian
Justin - 15 years ago
Matt - you certainly couldn't have passed Math 101. Of course it favorable. Do you just totally ignore the facts that it is medically destructive to live a homosexual lifestyle? Do you totally ignore the facts that homosexuals are much more likely to molest children? Do you totally ignore the facts that AIDS, STD's and many other diseases are highly prevelant in the homosexual practice/lifestyle? If you do, you truly are ignorant. Truly................................MATT, sir, please explain how I am a hypocrite?
Berrier - 15 years ago
This is great. I am so very proud to be an Iowan. All these people want is the same chance we get to love each other in a relationship that is recognized the world over. There was a time when marriage was defined as marriage between a white man and a white woman, lets not forget.
Jack - 15 years ago
I'm losing interest in the supposed opinions of the Christian god. If he exists, it's high time for him to come down and tell us unambiguously what he thinks, instead of letting the intellectual lightweights of society speak for him all the time.
dnitzer - 15 years ago
Hear, hear to Ms. Robin. This has been fun and somewhat entertaining, but there seem to be no studies proving that same-sex marriage have a harmful effect on anybody else's heterosexual marriage (Patty's projections and fears aside). So before signing out, I go back to my first post -
Wow. Iowa has trumped California in leading the way for fairness and justice and equal treatment under the law... Iowans - you rock! Congratulations to the State of Iowa for showing the rest of the country that "equal treatment under the law" still means something in the great USA. - an Ohioan.
Ms Robin - 15 years ago
Please know that I support same sex marriage. We have come a long way in accepting the differences of others and I want Iowa to be a progressive state. There is not a doubt in my mind that one day same sex marriages will be allowed all over the world, why not let Iowa be thought of as a more progressive state instead of a farm state full of hillbillies. This will certainly bring in a lot of revenue to our state of people coming here to be married. In this economic times, we need to make sure that we take advantage of every opportunity.
As for the fear that our children will see same sex couples as a bad example, or to have to explain about homosexuals at an early age; most children won’t even ask and if they do then parents will have the opportunity to express their personal beliefs at that time. Same sex families already exist, children in schools are already exposed as some of their classmates already have two moms or dads; all you are doing is allowing these children of same sex parents to be protected in horrible circumstances of death and divorce. I ask only that you think in a progressive way and make Iowa a positive, accepting, and forward growing place to live. Maybe our children will stop leaving the state and think of Iowa as a better place to live.
I realize that older people will have a more difficult time accepting same sex marriages, but know that our youth are speaking up and being heard. They are our future and they are more accepting and tolerant than their parents. I hope that it stands because it will make these young adults proud to be from Iowa.
Sincerely,
Robin J
Matt - 15 years ago
@Justin: You are definitely not a hypocrite, no sir.
dnitzer - 15 years ago
Justin: And your data compares favorably to a divorce rate of 50%+?
Justin - 15 years ago
Lucy - were you trying to make me upset? I'm not sure of the intent of your uneducated, ignorant, ranting.
**dnitzer**- here are the facts about the myth of "committed homosexuals". Number of Sex Partners
(MGCPS Feb. 2000) When questioned about the number of sex partners in the previous six months:
One - 20.7 %; 2 to 10 - 39 %; 11 to 50 - 26.2 %; Over 50 - 7.8 %.
Thus 73 % have had more than one partner in the previous six months.
Length of Relationships
From Sydney Men and Sexual Health (SMASH)
This survey questioned men as to the length of their relationship.
For those in a relationship, the data was:
Up to 6 months: 21.1%; 6-11 months: 12%; 1-5 years: 34.7%; Over 5 years 16.5%.
An additional 15.7% had a relationship that had ended in the past 6 months, leaving 84.3% of those 'in a relationship' giving data about the length of a relationship.
Study by NCHSR and NCHECR.
dnitzer - 15 years ago
Perhaps Patty is suggesting that same-sex couples will now invade her home and perpetrate such acts upon her and/or her husband, thereby ruining her marriage? I don't see the connection between the studies she posted and how her marriage (or anybody else's) will be harmed.
lefty lucy - 15 years ago
let the homos get married. why are the religions so against it?
Matt - 15 years ago
"dnitzer - penis, vagina, anus (poopy smelling anus).....is that better? Yes Johnny, says the teacher, "It's totally normal for you to stick your penis in little Billy's anus. It's okay. If it feels good, it's okay. You won't be at risk of STD's or AIDS in this lifestyle. You won't burn in your own lust for un-natural desires and want to parade nude through the streets with innocent children. Yes, and if you want to watch porn and be addicted, that's your belief and desire. It's okay. It won't alter your image of what a woman is or make you respect her less. It won't affect your mental wellness or your actions or your natural desires. Don't listen to Ted Bundy that it ultimately led him to murder and destroy other peoples lives. That belief about your actions affecting others is crazy. He doesn't know what he's talking about. What proof does he have? If you want to drink alcohol, it's okay. You won't get addicted. It won't affect others. I mean the possibility of you getting drunk and killing someone else is just absolutely absurd. Yes honey, you stick your penis wherever you want. Spot's anus? Of course it's okay. Who is anybody to tell you that you can't be happy? That won't affect your mental well-being one bit....................ahhhh yes. This is the beautiful society I want for my children!" http://i43.tinypic.com/2z58z2s.gif
lefty lucy - 15 years ago
Patty - do you know the CIA created aids?
Justin - 15 years ago
Patty! How dare you bring un-biblical facts to this discussion! The nerve!
dnitzer - 15 years ago
Patty - That's all interesting, but it has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. The question was, how does (same-sex) MARRIAGE harm anyone else? You answered the wrong question - probably just the one you would rather have had asked (apparently having more to do with pedophilia, judging from the data you provided).
JT - Christ also "threw" the money changers out of the temple. Christ also destroyed many people for their sins. Your ignorance of the Bible is plain. Christ also said "Though claiming to be wise, they became fools. God delivered them to sexual impurity as they followed the lusts of their hearts and dishonored their bodies with one another. They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, because they did not think it worthwhile to keep knowing God fully, God delivered them to degraded minds to perform acts that should not be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, and viciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, haughty, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to their parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's just requirement-that those who practice such things deserve to die-they not only do these things but even applaud others who practice them. And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things....................now go ahead and twist God's holy word to fit your feeble minded, fleshly driven thoughts, desires and beliefs. Yes, man does a fine job of governing themselves. Our world is in great shape!
I am very proud of our iowa today. This day was an eventuality but i expected it to happen in about 3 years time. On a more serious note, i think a bill similar to prop 8 would come up and and may pass, but i hope the college towns (ames and iowa city) as well as des moines would come together to overturn the possible reversal of this court decision. Even if this court decision gets reversed in short term, the tides have turned and would expect the state to approve gay marriage by 2015.
After reading some of the comments here, i would like to end with a quote from Gandhi: "I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ"
Also, to all the people on here that claim to be christians, haven't you read the bible? Doesn't Jesus teach you that if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also? Well Iowa just bitch slapped you, now what?
Good for them!!! I'm straight and fully support gay marriage. Some people on this board really make me nauseous. I bet you these are the same people that think that Blacks should be segregated by sitting at the back of buses and women should not be allowed to vote. Shame on you!!! Gay marriage has absolutely no effect on you, so why is it any of your business that two people that are in love get married? This is a major step forward for Iowa, I hope other state follow as well.
So now ass-lovers, cock suckers, pedophiles, homo-humpers, dykes, bulls, fags, low-lifes, scumbags, animal lovers, queers, and lesbo's can all conjugate their perverted sexual practices in the great state of i-o-wa!!!!! This isn't love it is sex by tha beasts in the field that the court says is equitable to God's law concerning marriage of a man and a woman! Not larry and steve; or doris and cleeve! So grab yoru dildos, and your gaudy wear, insemiante your cows, and your fem queers, send us your homo's, fags, and queers - to iowa, to iowa, let us not tarry - we might miss boning larry!
I am so proud of my state today! Man, I would have never thought that Iowa would legalize gay marraige! I am so happy we moved foward into the 21st century. I'm straight, but I believe that it is a human right to love whoever you want, whether it's a man and woman, woman and woman, or man and man.
This is a great day for our state.
-Katie in Bancroft, Iowa
One more thing: is it not just easier to accept people for who they are rather than fight against them? At this time of recession and war, ought we not to band together and support our country and our people rather than divide ourselves because of some family beliefs? Its 2009. There are way more important things to deal with.
I understand conservatives saying that their rights have been trampled, but I am from Canada, and gay marriage has been legal here since 2003. All these opponents who say it is 'destroying heterosexual marriages', I wanna seee the proof. not even ONE marriage has been destroyed here. rather, more people are married and happy, and the divorce rate, including homosexuals, has plateaud, rather than kept increasing. if people are happy and are not hurting anyone else, how can these Christians who are supposed to love evryone according the Golden Rule of the Bible, tell them they cannot do something. Shouldn't they wanna share joyous things with everyone rather than strip a certain group of those things?
@MIKE ABOUT POLYGAMY
Yes, what makes us human is our ability to reject our primeval tendencies but we are still animals, we have the same brain chemistry of other animals. When scared all animals release adrenaline, when happy all brains release endorphins. But not all brains are wired the same. I may assume that you are attracted to the opposite sex (females) and that when a attractive female looks your way your hypothalamus (part of brain that controls emotion) releases chemicals that make you feel attracted to said lady. Now, let's say you have a girlfriend already when this happens, you can suppress those emotions, this is what makes you human. However, when you were single this happened when you saw said girlfriend and you worked to form a relationship. Well, homosexuals have a brain wired differently, only when they see someone of the same sex does their hypothalamus react, you can take a gay guy and put him in front of an attractive naked chick and he will feel nothing but awkward. NOW, Polygamy, has absolutely nothing to do with feelings but culture. Harems in India, concubines in Asia, polygamy in Mormonism. There is a pattern here, one man, many women and usually treated as property. There has never been (to my knowledge) of a female with multiple husbands. If multiple people can marry then 5 women and 7 men should be allowed to marry each other, but then are the husbands considered in homosexual wed-lock? People don't have a 'natural' chemical desire for polygamy, it's something they are brought up to think is right. Nobody looks at a room of friends and gets a boner thinking how great if they were all married together. I'm all for homosexual marriage between two consenting adults but not the dominating of females by a male.
After reading all the hate-riddled anti-gay comments here, I am truly sad to call myself an American.
I am a christian woman and I fully support same-sex marriage...congrats Iowa...I don't believe that one religion can impose its beliefs on others ( I wouldn't want the mormons taking away my coffee!). But in seriousness...I do believe it is their basic right. My religion is protected, and it is a choice...why does it matter if orientation is a choice?
America is a bunch of hypopcrites...they love to watch Ellen dance around on TV...but wouldn't support her basic rights? Come on folks...remember when the church supported slavery? Many churches are on the wrong side of history on this issue...
Congratulations Iowa.
And to those who oppose, you disgust me, you are the kind of people who make me reluctant to be a proud American.
Right to homosexual marriage is between TWO _CONSENTING_ ADULTS. People who are old enough to make their own decisions and do not need hicks in the woods shoving a bible between them.
A majority of my friends are homosexual and have many more homosexual acquaintances. But I do not know a single pedophile and as far as polygamy goes, the only people I see with multiple partners are heterosexuals (mostly in the form of cheating on a spouse).
And you bigots really need to get off your "moral" majority horse. As part of a minority (Atheist) I would be extremely upset if my rights were limited because a majority of people believed in magic (getting off topic).
And what's with this taught in schools business? Public schools don't even talk about heterosexual marriage except in health when told to wait to have sex until marriage. Which if a child is homosexual and thinks this is a good idea but is never allowed to marry, why, doesn't that just encourage them to just be promiscuous since choosing a life partner will never benefit them socially, politically, or financially?
Religious arguments, slippery-slop arguments, and taught-in-school arguments are invalid, so to all those ignorant bigots out there, GET THE F OUT OF MY FREE COUNTRY (ps, stop breeding too, the world's over populated as it is, we don't need 15 of your bigot offspring buying hummers and being a-holes)
Just saw this. SNERK
Top Ten Reasons to Make Gay Marriage Illegal
01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all like many of the principles on which this great country was founded; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of marriages like Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
Happy 2009 everybody! i mean, this is america where many ethnicities, races, cultures and sexualities exsist. that's what makes America great! i'd love to say we all live in peace, but that is not the case. i really think people should be more open-minded. i don't think gender matters. it just isn't fair how people treat gays today. if you're in love, who cares what's in your pants? i am going to get married. i will. no matter what it takes, i am going to get married someday to my same-sex partner. it would be a shame if i had to leave the country to do it. i support this decision 110%. and i hate the hypocrites that say it's against the bible, when they sin everyday. everyone is a sinner, and i don't even believe in god. being happy is never a sin though. and if you believe god is the creator, then why did he make homosexuals? i am so glad this law happened. and i hope that it will stay this way. SUPPORT LOVE!!
WTF is up with you fundie 'tards going on like people think that talking about "God this, God that," and "the Bible this, the Bible that," constitutes an argument? LOL WUT?
I'm personally thrilled that some family friends can now get married - they've been together monogamously for at least 15 years, been kicked out of several churches and volunteer organizations by morons, and dedicated their lives to helping people, and now they can have all the legal rights of heterosexual couples who squirt out children and sap welfare from the government.
You guys also know that women would have to marry their rapists and were married off as pieces of property as prepubescent children to husbands who had other wives, and what we think of as "traditional" marriage came about because the melding of religion and government was convenient, rite? ...rite?
(and that there were other religions and governmental systems before the abrahamic and western ones?)
(and that teh ghey won't kill you or your kiddies, provided you aren't a crap parent that tries to terrify them?)
(and neither will exposure to east asian religion, atheism, agnosticism, etc, even at tender young ages, again, provided you aren't a crap parent?)
I bet y'all are afraid of Shakespeare and Chaucer. Maybe even Sartre. Damn.
Lots of ignorant homophobes and bigots here. Gay marriage isn't the end of all life as we know it, it isn't legalizing pedophilia or bestiality (look up "meaningful consent" and educate your ignorant selves), and you have no real argument against it other than selfishness, ignorance, and bigotry. For the good of the country, shut up and let people have rights.
Then again, you are hateful little children throwing the world's longest tantrum; I daresay I'm wasting my time trying to convince you of anything factual.
ok people who discriminate against homosexuals, you need to get your head on straight, thier (we're) people too... everyone loves someone, everyone wants to love someone, does it really have to matter who, or what sex they are? i dont think so... and to the people talkin about what they would do if their children, or child turned out to be gay, most of the families i think would support thier child after all the child came from them... i know if my children turned out to be gay, i would be proud of thier decision, and for them talkin to me about it... i would not be like get out of my house... i would honor them for what thier doing...Secondly, people people what if you straight people were born gay? would you want people to make fun of you? or would you fight for equality? id fight hard, like i am...
I Am Proud Of Iowa... Congrats...!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just have to laugh at those of you who are apoplectic about this. Get used to it. State by state, same-sex marriage will eventually be legal across the country.
I guess that means you only have to go through this 47 more times. :)
And by the way, sexual orientation is fixed. It can't be changed. You like what you like. There's plenty of evidence that proves sexual orientation is something you're born with.
We need to exercise caution when using the bible to justify prejudice legislation and discrimination. Many Christians support full and equal rights for lesbians and gay. Jesus teachings say nothing about homosexuality, but much about the sin of self-righteousness. In fact the word homosexuality never appeared in the bible until 1943! Scholars vary widely on what they think the terms used prior to 1943 actually meant. Most agree it probably meant Temple prostitution and homosexual rape which often occurred during war when one army overthrew another. Homosexuality of a loving, committed nature is simple not addressed.
Scientific evidence supports genetics as a primary cause of homosexuality. Klinefelter's Syndrome is one example of many of genetics playing a crucial role in sexual abiguity. A condition where they genitals are not fully differentiated between male or female and the child is somewhere in between.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter%27s_syndrome
Since genes play a large role in sexual expression and sexual orientation, it must be assumed that like race, it is part of God's plan. Maybe gays were place here to test our ability to have compassion for those who are different? In any case, it is wise to follow Jesus teachings and err on the side of love, compassion, and fairness, rather than prejudice, judgement, and self-righteousness.
The judges who ruled on this case are not activist judges, but rather professionals who ruled based on the letter of the law. American laws that uphold fairness and equality. Laws that protect ALL of us. Luckily these judges had the courage to uphold the law regardless of public opinion, and stand by the very core values of fairness and equality that this country was built on. I am proud of Iowa and her judges for doing the right thing and upholding these core American values and core Christian values. Jesus taught love, not prejudice. Jesus taught, compassion, not hate. Jesus talk fairness, not discrimination.
God bless Iowa and her judges for doing the right thing. And please to those of you who claim to be Christians, stop using a beautiful religion of love to condone discrimination, prejudice, or hate. It time for all Christians to accept responsibility for the roles we have played in sexism, racism, classism, heterosexism, and xenophobia and repent for our self-righteousness and reach out to others with compassion and fairness. That is what Jesus would do.
Good for Iowa! In 20 years we'll look back and realize just how wrong it was to discriminate based on sexuality, just like we have with racism.
By the way folks, issues of racial equality and gay marriage are not the same. I would take the trouble to lay out the argument in support of the assertion, but I doubt anyone would actually respond to the argument. They simply would reply with another assertion. As for comparing animals with humans. Of course the analogy is not meant to offer a complete correspondance. Human have the capacity for thought to act beyond their animal natures. We are more than animals and yet, less than the angels. And, we are clearly not gods, although much of the last 100+ years has been spent in trying to make it so. No, equal protection of the laws does not entail the right for two consenting adults to do anything they please. Finally, for those who don't think polygamy would follow, on equal protection grounds, from gay marriage; please explain: Why should number be a limitation on consenting adults getting marriad to each other??? I hope to see a response. Should be interesting.
I guess some people don't get it. 2 CONSENTING ADULTS.....I guess I don't see where animals come into play except in your mind.....Have you visited your doctor to discuss this?
"...I am simply amazed how the people supporting this decision are content to avoid making or responding to any real arguments..."
And I am equally amazed at how any Iowan can feel anything other than enormous pride, especially given the state's history of setting trends and doing the right and fair and egalitarian thing. From abolishing slavery 17 years before the Supreme Court continued to make it legal (!) in 1837... through a history of supporting women's and racial equality... and now this. My hat is off to Iowa. You do the US proud.
I am simply amazed how the people supporting this decision are content to avoid making or responding to any real arguments. They simply assert this and that. Like, "It is simply a equal protection issue." Well, the law is not so simple and the judicial construction in this case is legally wrong.
Congratulations Iowa! Thanks for making the sane choice. Reading the hatred and homophobia in some of these comments is sickening. I'm guessing Jesus is also sickened by those of you using his name to promote hatred and bigotry. As a straight, happily married, agnostic women, I am proud of Iowa. I hope that soon, any 2 consenting adults can celebrate their commitment in the same way I was allowed to, in EVERY state of our nation. Gays are people too, hard as that may be for some of you to see. One of the most loving weddings I have ever been to was between two, deeply in love men. My marriage is stronger for witnessing their commitment.
this decision is a simply case of finding for equal protection under the law for all citizens. all the rest of this blather about religions and citing of highly dubious statistics is pointless... and the rank hatred expressed by many here illustrate why advances in equality are made in the courts and not by a popular vote. thank you, iowa supremes, for coming to your fair and unanimous decision regarding civil marriage rights.
Matt; your construction of the statement stretches the boundaries of credibility. Your position would be supported if the statement said "sexual orientation" in the list of those things that cannot restrict marriage. However, it doesn't do that. Men and women simply means and women have a right to marry. Now, at a time, when people could think clearly, the statements meaning would be obvious. But, we are the inheritors of the mental errors of the totalitarion century and while Hitler and Stalin lost their regimes; their style of distorted thinking survives.
Judicial tyranny is the official form of government in today's America. Our Republic has vanished in the span of a single generation. The people's right to vote is a meaningless formality. The Constitution as written by the founders is a meaningless piece of paper. KILL ALL THE LAWYERS AND JUDGES.
I don't care for gay people. Nor do I care if they choose to love each other. Where is the problem?
@Mike: It doesn't say "men to women", it says "men and women".
Matt; Think about what??? The quote doesn't support gay marriage.
Also, Mike, the question is how are they related?
@Mike: Think again. "Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution." - Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16
Matt; How are they unrelated? On what grounds? Especially polygamy?? As for the other stuff and never said anything about it and I don't believe it. Homosexuals are persons subject to the same rights and laws of other persons. Marriage, however, is not a right that is natural for two men or two women, and certainly not entailing a right to have children, which denys them, by definition a mother or father.
@Mike: WHY DO YOU BRING UP POLYGAMY AND PEDOPHILIA? THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED! Also, homosexuality isn't socially "normal", but it certainly isn't a freakish abomination deserving of burning in hell.
@Bravo116: Well obviously it isn't just the Christians who disapprove. I know that all of the Abraham religions have something against homosexuality in their scripture. Nonetheless, I don't see how the G&L community are at fault here. The religious ones were the ones to disapprove something that didn't really have a negative effect on their own lives, or any lives for that matter.
Kimmy; does a child created through technical means to a lesbian couple have a right to know who their biological father? Does a child technically created for two men have a right to know their biological mother????
Matt; Human beings cannot put themselves outside of natural laws without undertaking create risks. The human brain is capable of developing all kinds of devices and arguments to free themselves of constraints. And, not all uses of our brains contradict the moral natural laws. So, there is nothing wrong in using medicines to cure disease. Nor, is it necessarily wrong to use medical interventions to help them conceive. But, this is an exception to the rule and recognizes something is wrong. However, gay marriage will lead to the argument that these procedures are normal, increasing their use and eroding any notion of the importance of gender roles in raising children. And, there is no logical defense to the argument that a man and a consenting child should be able to get married. Or, even more compelling, on equal protection grounds, what can be the objection to polygamy????
@Mike - take note...homosexual people do procreate. Perhaps not in the traditional way, but they do have families, raise them and they turn out great just as often as heterosexual families.
@ Matt: And I am saying that don't just assume it is just the Hillbilly, Redneck, American, Christians who believe that marriage between to men or women is bad, and that they are living in the Dark Ages, and need to live in the 21st Century. Regardless of religion the G & L community have made it a moral and religious issue by pushing it the last 10 years. The Christians never did. This idea was floated past various groups until it started seeing national attention. All the Christian community is doing is standing up for something we don't agree with or believe in, as am sure you are doing the same.
It's a great day for Iowa, even if some of the close-minded idiots in this state can't realize it. Any day that freedom to live your life is recognized in America - it is a day to celebrate. Ironic that most of these people that are anti-gay marriage are the same ones who will vehemently argue THEIR right to own a gun. So here is a very very simple solution to all of you who are against gay marriage....Don't marry a gay person! (trust me they don't want you anyways!)
I think some people forget that part of the idea of marriage is the commitment to be with one person--and only one person -- for the rest of your life. You would prefer that someone not make this commitment? And how would this affect YOU?
Anyhow - this married hetro woman is very proud of Iowa today.
@Mike: People are a different animal, seeing as how we have the most advanced brains out of all of them.
@Bravo116: I'm just saying that age doesn't really matter in this case.
Yeah, but I don't remember the last time I ever saw a gay getting sold off away from his family, or whipped in a field, or beaten, or hung. Please don't compare the two, you do a disservice to those who have.
@Niximus: It's not like the Christians' lives are being affected as such.
All tyranny is founded on the simple principle of the big lie. The big lie in this case is homosexuality is normal. It is not. It cannot be normal for two individuals to marry who can not procreate. If this situation was normal the species could not survive. Homosexuality is an outlier situation. The core cell of society is the family that can create the next generation and raise them with the benefit of male and female influence. Any statistical arguement about divorce rates and so on are not relevant. That we fall short of the best does not mean we must settle for the worst. And the worst in the gay marriage situation is creating the norm of artificially creating children and operating under the big lie that the child does not have a mother or father. This also violates the main ethical directive that no person should be a means to another persons ends. Every child has a natural right to have a mother and father or the ability to find out who their real parents are. Even adoption, in most situations will allow this. Gay couples will operate under the fantasy that this is not necessary, thus denying their children of their birthright. In short; the decision is nonsense.
Iowa's decision makes me proud to be a midwesterner- which isn't always the case. Our communities, our country and our world will be a much better place if we can all accept others that are different and provide them the same rights and safety in our world.
Thank you Iowa justices for reminding Iowa and the country that being gay doesn't make you less of person.
This is a positive step towards a world where gay kids and adults won't be spit on, harrassed, or assaulted but rather just be kids and adults.
@Bravo116: Slavery's an even older institution, but that's not exactly around much anymore.
RE Matt:"But you most certainly shouldn't assume that it is morally right to shove discrimination into the law THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE." --That's funny, because I was just going to say the same thing to you. Teaching it in schools, or on TV or in Books and magazines, would be discrimination to the people who don't believe its acceptable. The door swings both ways.
This is a good news
@Matt: You make the assumption that only Christians believe this is wrong. You are talking about one of the oldest institutions ever founded on this earth. (Marriage of a Man and Women) It is founded in almost every historical scriptural writ.
Douglas, thank you for being so courteous, and maybe we can agree to disagree. As I can only speak for myself, I just don't see it that way.
Of course I would want my daughter to be happy and of course I would want her to be with someone for the rest of her life, but when it comes down to it, it is still a sin whether its legal or not. I will love her and I will always love her, and she will always be welcome in my house, and if the person she is with, treats her well and puts a smile on her face, I would be satisfied. She has her freedom to do what she wants but, I have my freedom to still hate the sin, and love the sinner and I always will. I will always stand up for what I feel is right, but I will never do so with malice or hatred. As, I am sure you feel the same way.
"Iowa-leader of the decline and demise of family values. Hey, meet my mom and mom or meet my dad and dad. Get real. When same sex can reproduce then I'll ponder it. Right now, I'm not very proud to be an Iowan. It's another example of our legislators not voting for the constituants wishes. We'll know who not to vote for in the next election, should we have another one. It would be great for Iowa to be a leader in something, but same sex marriages........what a disappointment." What's truly a disappointment is that people actually think like you do. LET'S SELFISHLY THROW AWAY THE AMERICAN PRINCIPLES OF EQUALITY FROM PEOPLE BECAUSE I DON'T APPROVE OF THEM AND THEY LOOK FUNNY.
@Bravo116: The point is that America isn't supposed just cater to Christianity, it's supposed to give equality to the people. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! I don't mind you believing what you want, but you most certainly shouldn't assume that it is morally right to shove discrimination into the law THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE. B|
Iowa-leader of the decline and demise of family values. Hey, meet my mom and mom or meet my dad and dad. Get real. When same sex can reproduce then I'll ponder it. Right now, I'm not very proud to be an Iowan. It's another example of our legislators not voting for the constituants wishes. We'll know who not to vote for in the next election, should we have another one. It would be great for Iowa to be a leader in something, but same sex marriages........what a disappointment.
@ Bravo, I respect that answer.
I just would like to ask, wouldn't you want equal rights for all your children?
I'll answer it Doug: Just because she chose a lifestyle I don't agree with doesn't mean I love her any less. However, I would still expect her to live by the same standards and morals that I taught her as long as she is in my house. And even then I would expect her to live by them but, she has her freedom to do what she wants. Just because she says she it gay, doesn't mean she has to sexually active and promiscuous. Hopefully she'll take into account the way she was raised when making decisions in life, and I would expect her to do that with every decision.
Another Smart, caring, loving Iowan who grew up in a small town and loves the fact that our state is sitting the standard for fairness and equality! YOU GO IOWA! May God bless our state for having the courage and insight to promote compassion, fairness, and equality.
AWESOME!
Finally some JUSTICE in this nation of ours.
And no, I'm not Gay or Lesbian ;-D - only interested in JUSTICE!!
@Justin
What if one of your girls turns out to be a lesbian? What then?
Douglas, will be glad to answer your question when I return home. Going out with the wife and two girls. Will return later tonight. :-)
@Matt, and I am still trying to find your point, other than a random insult every other post. My point being for those trying to distort Christ and his teachings of love. We can love the sinner and still hate the sin. I know many gay people and I don't think any less of them. I don't agree with their lifestyle and them parading it around the community in a minority trying to justify it. Christians should love all but, they don't have to agree with their lifestyle, especially if they see it as a sin.
@Bravo116: You're missing the point entirely.
Okay... Here is a checklist for all the "Christian" people out there.
ONE: Do any of you "christ-like" individuals actually know any homosexuals?
TWO: Are you any of the following A)Racist B) Sexist C) Homophobic D) All of the above?
THREE: Have you advanced your education further than Middle School? Many of your reasonings makes me question your logic skills and intelligence.
FOUR: Have you actually fully read the teachings of Jesus Christ, or would you like to THINK you have for your personal image?
FIVE: When was the last time you went to church? (Easter and Christmas don't count.)
SIX: How this will affect you in any way shape or form?
SEVEN: What was the founding father's goals for this country? (Oh that's right, Equality for all.)
EIGHT: When did you ever CHOOSE to be heterosexual?
NINE: How would you feel if people were able to vote on the legitimacy of YOUR marriage?
TEN: What sexual orientation was Jesus? He never married, lusted, or procreated. Tell me. It never says.
The passing of the Iowa Supreme Court's decision will go down in the history books, for the good.
I think you Christians should worry more about the Ten Commandments, because we all know you follow them strictly and obediently.
This is not a matter of Love and Hate. This is a matter of Right vs. Wrong. Jesus Christs loves all. "Love the sinner, hate the sin". Christ is willing to welcome all unto him, if and only if, they repent of their sins and forsake them. “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Rev. 3:20. Christ does not just accept us for who we are but rather if we have humbled ourselves before him and repented of our sins, he is there waiting at the door but it is up to us to open it and let him into our lives. But these words and principles are only true if you believe in god and in the Bible. Justifying a sinful lifestyle through a man made government does not change how God still views the sin.
Before criticizing the court or the justices for "activism", I encourage you all to read the full text of the opinion. The (unanimous) majority did an excellent job exploring the various constitutional reasons requiring inclusive marriage. While you may disagree that it was the "right" thing to do, judges do not rule on the basis of their conscious, but rather the requirements of law. In this instance, it would have been against Iowa's constitution to find any other way.
I applaud the justices for their fair application of state law.
@Justin: You have made my day.
"Matt, most on this page are obviously smarter than you!" Says the one who didn't say anything intelligent.
I would like to hear a Patty or a Justin or someone with similar beliefs to fill in the blanks in this sentence: "If a same-sex couple is permitted to marry somewhere in the state of Iowa, then my marriage will be harmed in this way [... fill in the blank here...] by it, because [.... fill in the blank here ...]."
Matt, most on this page are obviously smarter than you!
Thomas - Have you ever read the 1972 Gay Rights Platform; their "mission" so to speak. 1. Repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent. This is extremely disturbing. Ever been to a "pride" March Thomas? I encourage you to do so. Urinating in public. Sexual acts in streets. Nudity; all in front of children. Go sometime. You will really see when the homosexual desires are let loose, when this spirit is let loose, it is repulsive and extremely sad. 2. Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage. This will destroy families and ultimately, communities, and ultimately our nation. They don't want to just practice in the privacy of their homes. If that was the case, there would be nothing to fight. People live in sin everyday, as sad as that is. But they want to flaunt it in your face, they parade it in the streets, they are starting to force it into schools to teach it as normal; there are laws trying to be passed right now that if a preacher preaches that it's sin, he can be arrested. Is this right Thomas. Schools have never ever taught against homosexuality, so why all of a sudden force them to try and teach it as normal? The homosexual movement has an underlying agenda that most do not see or believe. They want to remove all traditional notions of sexual morality and replace them with sexual relativism; that when it comes to sex, there's no right or wrong. God created the nucleus of the family for a reason. Children need a mother and a father in there upbringing. Both are very important. When you mess with the natural design of manking that God has created, you will destroy a people and cause anarchy. We now have bisexual restrooms. Is this normal to you? So you're okay with a homosexual man, who burns in his sexual desire to sodomize another male, to go into a restroom with your son, or a young nephew or any other male? Thomas, if you don't stand for truth, what are you made of? Who are you? If you call my beliefs discrimination than you call it what you will. God discriminated against a people in Sodom and Gomorrah for these exact sins. Thomas, do you believe in God? I hope you do. If you do, I hope you fear/respect Him enough to consider His Word that He has given us to enjoy a fulfilling life while on earch. I must go. It was truly nice to chat with you Thomas. I hope you have a great weekend. God bless.
"5 year olds will now be taught what sodomy is! way to go iowa!" You are obviously a well-educated, sophisticated person with your meaningless blabber. You are so smart!
5 year olds will now be taught what sodomy is! way to go iowa!
Justin - You clearly are a believer, and there isn't anything wrong with that. I will not be able to change what you believe, and for the most part I have no reason to try. Belief isn't the problem, its discrimination. From what you've said despite your beliefs you wouldn't treat a homosexual any different from anyone else, and that is a wonderful thing. You might not agree with the lifestyle, and you may try and warn them of what you feel awaits them, but you don't try and hurt, harass, or demean them for their choices. So, why shouldn't they be allowed to have the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities as the rest of us, including the right to wed.
Matt - not being self righteous my friend. Just stating the facts which you seem to not handle very well. MATT, let me smack you in the face or throw cold water on you to wake yourself up. Please show me somewhere in my comments that I stated that I assume that ALL homos rape children and are dispicable people? Where Matt? Quite making assumptions of your own my friend. Never once did I say that. I simply posted facts, facts that homosexuals themselves admitted that were polled. You my friend have said absolutely nothing intelligent in this entire blog. Just childish comments. You're like David Letterman arguing Foreign Affairs.
I grew up in Iowa, and delivered the Des Moines Register for 6 years. I have never been so proud of Iowa as I am today. Iowa is leading the way towards a more compassionate, and understanding American. YOU GO IOWA! I love you and the people in it.
"God will not bless us as a nation with these beliefs (sin)."
But will God bless us for these sins?:
Unfairness to others
Unequal treatment under the law
Pharisee-like pre-judgment of others
Homophobia
Treating ourselves as superior to others by virtue of our sexuality
If God does not bless us for the sins you listed, which of our sins *does* He bless us for.
Point is, if you subscribe to your belief system, we are all sinners. Which sins have you not committed today, Justin?
"We did not elect these judges, and so they are not representing the interests of the state, only their own agendas."
Actually, here in Iowa, the Supreme Court Justices do face a retention election. If the voters cast enough ballots to remove the Justice from the bench, he/she is gone.
http://www.sos.state.ia.us/pdfs/elections/2008/JudgesConstAmend.pdf
Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you blather off.
@Justin: Being self-righteous doesn't exactly help your argument.
Thomas - you are certainly correct on many things you've said. Minute, trivial beliefs, (standards, etc.) are different in one church. However, people in another country who don't believe in Christ/God were still created by him and were still initally instilled with a conscience of what's morally right or wrong. This was and can only be given by God. It's certainly a person's right to say and believe that God's Word isn't the foundation of truth but it will be revealed when Christ comes back that it is. I've never "hated" a homosexual, yelled slurs, damaged property, etc. I would sit down and have lunch with one anytime. But I will still fight for what's right, for what God says in His Word. I'll still fight for my child's future, for my country. God will not bless us as a nation with these beliefs (sin). There are countless stories in the Bible and many examples in our history books of nations falling because of lack of Godly morals. Sadly enough, to lean on time to dispell or prove would be a tragedy as it would be too late. I will not give up. When I stand before my creator, I must be able to say I did my part to warn other souls of the snares and pitfalls of sin, and the destructive end there of.
@Truth: But there is the sun. :D
Hey All - there is no god. The bible was written by a few nomadic sheep herders. Sorry to burst your little bubble there.
FYI - also, there are no unicorns, no Zeus, no Allah, no Santa, no Tooth Fairy, etc.
@Justin: "were you trying to make me upset? I'm not sure of the intent of your uneducated, ignorant, ranting." Trust me, you're a hypocrite. STD's are prevalent EVERYWHERE. Not just homosexuals. And just because some "study" showed that homos are more likely to be pedophiles doesn't mean we should assume that ALL OF THEM RAPE CHILDREN AND ARE DESPICABLE PEOPLE BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW.
Jack - I dare you to study His Word. With an honest heart, He will reveal it to you. Don't listen to the intellectual lightweights of society=men. Men will fail you when they lean on their own understanding and wisdom, as we've all seen, but God never fails.
Justin - There are many different philosophical answers to the question that you've put forth (What is morally acceptable and what isn't, to paraphrase) and all of them have there merits and pitfalls, and if your truly interested in learning about them I would suggest taking a class on Moral Philosophy, you may find Divine Command Theory interesting.
Joe L stated that we all have different beliefs, which is true, we all do, even with in your church (assuming you are a church goer) you will find many interpretations of different passages, laws and what have you in scripture. It is very unlikely that someone will agree with you 100% the entirety of your belief structure even if they go to the same church, or are in your family. That said morality differs much more wildly from culture to culture then it does with in your religion, and even so there are certain things that are considered immoral in all or virtually all cultures. One example is murder. Though the definition of what constitutes murder varies the concept of murder is present (near) universally. It is considered wrong in almost all cultures Christian or otherwise, so the fact that we in the United States consider murder a crime can not be attributed to a claim that our nation is founded on God's law. Other nations who do not believe in the Christian god consider murder a crime with out it being God's Law that decreed it.
So, no, I cannot answer your question fully, as there are many ways of theories on how to determine whether an act is moral or not. But I can tell you that God's Law isn't the only method of ruling the list of crimes you mentioned immoral, many other cultures believe those acts to be wrong with out viewing them through the lens of God's Law.
@dnitzer: I find it really sad that anyone in this country has been fooled let alone this many people.
Anyways, I find it really nice that we're one step closer to actually fulfilling the age old promise of equality to citizens of America. The US will actually be thought of worldwide as a good place to be at some point. The future's looking brighter. :D
From,
a bisexual Virginian
Matt - you certainly couldn't have passed Math 101. Of course it favorable. Do you just totally ignore the facts that it is medically destructive to live a homosexual lifestyle? Do you totally ignore the facts that homosexuals are much more likely to molest children? Do you totally ignore the facts that AIDS, STD's and many other diseases are highly prevelant in the homosexual practice/lifestyle? If you do, you truly are ignorant. Truly................................MATT, sir, please explain how I am a hypocrite?
This is great. I am so very proud to be an Iowan. All these people want is the same chance we get to love each other in a relationship that is recognized the world over. There was a time when marriage was defined as marriage between a white man and a white woman, lets not forget.
I'm losing interest in the supposed opinions of the Christian god. If he exists, it's high time for him to come down and tell us unambiguously what he thinks, instead of letting the intellectual lightweights of society speak for him all the time.
Hear, hear to Ms. Robin. This has been fun and somewhat entertaining, but there seem to be no studies proving that same-sex marriage have a harmful effect on anybody else's heterosexual marriage (Patty's projections and fears aside). So before signing out, I go back to my first post -
Wow. Iowa has trumped California in leading the way for fairness and justice and equal treatment under the law... Iowans - you rock! Congratulations to the State of Iowa for showing the rest of the country that "equal treatment under the law" still means something in the great USA. - an Ohioan.
Please know that I support same sex marriage. We have come a long way in accepting the differences of others and I want Iowa to be a progressive state. There is not a doubt in my mind that one day same sex marriages will be allowed all over the world, why not let Iowa be thought of as a more progressive state instead of a farm state full of hillbillies. This will certainly bring in a lot of revenue to our state of people coming here to be married. In this economic times, we need to make sure that we take advantage of every opportunity.
As for the fear that our children will see same sex couples as a bad example, or to have to explain about homosexuals at an early age; most children won’t even ask and if they do then parents will have the opportunity to express their personal beliefs at that time. Same sex families already exist, children in schools are already exposed as some of their classmates already have two moms or dads; all you are doing is allowing these children of same sex parents to be protected in horrible circumstances of death and divorce. I ask only that you think in a progressive way and make Iowa a positive, accepting, and forward growing place to live. Maybe our children will stop leaving the state and think of Iowa as a better place to live.
I realize that older people will have a more difficult time accepting same sex marriages, but know that our youth are speaking up and being heard. They are our future and they are more accepting and tolerant than their parents. I hope that it stands because it will make these young adults proud to be from Iowa.
Sincerely,
Robin J
@Justin: You are definitely not a hypocrite, no sir.
Justin: And your data compares favorably to a divorce rate of 50%+?
Lucy - were you trying to make me upset? I'm not sure of the intent of your uneducated, ignorant, ranting.
**dnitzer**- here are the facts about the myth of "committed homosexuals". Number of Sex Partners
(MGCPS Feb. 2000) When questioned about the number of sex partners in the previous six months:
One - 20.7 %; 2 to 10 - 39 %; 11 to 50 - 26.2 %; Over 50 - 7.8 %.
Thus 73 % have had more than one partner in the previous six months.
Length of Relationships
From Sydney Men and Sexual Health (SMASH)
This survey questioned men as to the length of their relationship.
For those in a relationship, the data was:
Up to 6 months: 21.1%; 6-11 months: 12%; 1-5 years: 34.7%; Over 5 years 16.5%.
An additional 15.7% had a relationship that had ended in the past 6 months, leaving 84.3% of those 'in a relationship' giving data about the length of a relationship.
Study by NCHSR and NCHECR.
Perhaps Patty is suggesting that same-sex couples will now invade her home and perpetrate such acts upon her and/or her husband, thereby ruining her marriage? I don't see the connection between the studies she posted and how her marriage (or anybody else's) will be harmed.
let the homos get married. why are the religions so against it?
"dnitzer - penis, vagina, anus (poopy smelling anus).....is that better? Yes Johnny, says the teacher, "It's totally normal for you to stick your penis in little Billy's anus. It's okay. If it feels good, it's okay. You won't be at risk of STD's or AIDS in this lifestyle. You won't burn in your own lust for un-natural desires and want to parade nude through the streets with innocent children. Yes, and if you want to watch porn and be addicted, that's your belief and desire. It's okay. It won't alter your image of what a woman is or make you respect her less. It won't affect your mental wellness or your actions or your natural desires. Don't listen to Ted Bundy that it ultimately led him to murder and destroy other peoples lives. That belief about your actions affecting others is crazy. He doesn't know what he's talking about. What proof does he have? If you want to drink alcohol, it's okay. You won't get addicted. It won't affect others. I mean the possibility of you getting drunk and killing someone else is just absolutely absurd. Yes honey, you stick your penis wherever you want. Spot's anus? Of course it's okay. Who is anybody to tell you that you can't be happy? That won't affect your mental well-being one bit....................ahhhh yes. This is the beautiful society I want for my children!" http://i43.tinypic.com/2z58z2s.gif
Patty - do you know the CIA created aids?
Patty! How dare you bring un-biblical facts to this discussion! The nerve!
Patty - That's all interesting, but it has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. The question was, how does (same-sex) MARRIAGE harm anyone else? You answered the wrong question - probably just the one you would rather have had asked (apparently having more to do with pedophilia, judging from the data you provided).