It's pre tribe. God's children are not called to wrath. Noah got saved from the flood, Lot and his family
Except his wife were taken out of Sodom safe and sound, and Jesus is coming back for us I believed
Before anti christ is revealed.
There is no exegetical proof ( scripture ) to support a pre-trib rapture.
Aisegetically the rapture is supposed to occur between the end of Rev 3 and the beginning of Rev 4.
But that is "read into" the text and NOT supported by any pre-text or co-text anywhere else in scripture.
The rapture occurs following the opening of the 6th seal in Revelation 6 and this is supported by
Revelation chapter 7 explicitly.
By placing the tribulation in a pre-trib context you can NOT then explain how the church WILL IDENTIFY the anti-christ as stated in II Thessalonians nor how the tribulation saints ARE those who refuse the mark of the
beast BEFORE the church is raptured and NOT people who are "saved" after the church is gone when
God turns his attention 100 % to the Jews and the age of the Gentiles has ceased to be.
Any Gentiles remaining according to scripture will have been turned over in judgement by GOD already and will not see the truth even after the Rapture. Giving people a false hope of a second chance is WRONG.
The Left Behind Movies are in gross error concerning what things will be like after the rapture.
As for the 24 elders referred to at the beginning of Rev 4 ( we are told they represent the raptured church )
they do NOT. They are the 12 apostles of the New Testament and the 12 princes ( sons of Jacob ) identified
in Genesis 49, ( Old testament ). It is difficult to get the church ready for the tribulation which she will face
in the end times when they are taught they will escape it all.
I respectfully suggest you check out Moriel Ministries and the teachings of Jacob Prasch concerning
this and other issues concerning the last days before the return of Jesus.
This is awesome to see; anyone who has studied the Bible as a whole, OT and NT, can discern that the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture - this is absolute truth. No one can point to an OT Type and Shadow that portrays a mid-trib or post-trib rapture.
-Noah & Family, a picture of the raptured church, is called into the ark (heaven) "7 days" before the flood.
-Daniel, a picture of the church, is NOT mentioned once in Ch. 3 - he rose in favor of the King and remained at the royal court while the King lavished many gifts upon him. This is the church in heaven at the judgment seat of Christ while the 3 Hebrew men went through the fiery furnace heated "7 times hotter" but they were saved out of it by one "like the son of man".
-Joseph, a type of Christ, marries a gentile bride, Asenath, who bore him Mannaseh & Ephriam who were grafted into the 12 tribes - toward the end of the 7 YEARS OF PLENTY - and BEFORE his brothers experienced the 7 YEARS OF FAMINE!
Rev. 4:1 = Rapture; John the BELOVED is called up to heaven and "immediately I was in the spirit!"
24 Elders = Church according to OT and Rev. 2 & 3; John wept because he didn't know that Christ, the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, would be opening the first seal in Ch. 6, he hadn't seen that yet. But the Elder already knew and told him, weep not! Wow, how did the Elder know? It's because that's the church and we've already read the Book!!!!! Hahahahaha! Halleluiah, the Lord God Almighty Reigns!!
In Rev. 7, John doesn't recognize the multitude who are wearing white robes (not raiment; different Greek word) and have palm branches and SERVE God in His temple - where does any of this match the church in Ch. 2&3?? Raiment, Crowns, Thrones, Kings & Priests => That would be the Elders.....Hmmm, and who tells John who this multitude is?? Why, again, one of the Elders!!!! So if this multitude seen in Ch. 7 (between the opening of the 6th and 7th Sea) isn't the Church; then the Church must have already been raptured => 4:1 people! Amen!!!
Listen Church, when Jesus said "of that day and hour knows no man, not even the angels, nor the son, but MY FATHER ONLY" he had NOT YET been crucified, resurrected or ascended to the FATHER. After Jesus was crucified, resurrected and ascended to the FATHER, Christ was given a REVELATION! Rev. 1:1 "The REVELATION of Jesus Christ that God [the FATHER] gave Him [Jesus] to show His servants what must soon take place. Blessed is he who reads the words of this prophecy..."
The Greek word "revelation" here is "apokalypsis" which means: INFORMATION OR INSTRUCTION PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN! Get it??? C'mon church, somebody better wake up!!
Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ, the SAME yesterday, today and forever." Do we believe it?????
If the Nation of Israel - who rejected Christ - was given a prophecy in the Book of Daniel Ch. 9 that told them the EXACT DAY to expect Messiah the Prince (the Triumphal Entry of Christ) - then why wouldn't the Church - who is looking for Him - be given a sign in the Book of Revelation telling us when to expect him?????
The sign in the Sun, Moon and Stars (Luke 21) is given in Rev. 12:1-6. This actually occurs on the Feast of Trumpets Sept. 2017 (Hebrew Year 5778) (LESS THAN 3 YEARS FROM NOW!!!); which also happens to be the 70th Anniversary of the Nation if Israel being reestablished. Matt. 24 = The Fig Tree; Psalm 90:10 = 70-80 Years, the life span of a generation.
Check out the images and ALL the scriptures to back this up at by viewing my Presentation entitled "The Genesis-Revelation Connection" here: http://www.revelationshipministries.org/biblestudy/the-genesis-revelation-connection/
If you're not looking for the return of Christ, you're looking for the antichrist. Even so come Lord Jesus!
Blessing to everyone and let's not grow weary in doing good! We have but a short time to spread the gospel - hasten, hasten!!
There's a call going out!! Behold the Bri
The Balfour Century concept seems compelling as does the concept of pretrib based on Antichrist revealed as clear marker in 2thes. However, it seems there is nothing to restrict a rapture mid trib either, especially in light of the 10 virgin parable. For these reasons, it seems this is a big mystery, so perhaps the adage, hope for the best, prepare for the worst applies?
I know, by lisgtening to you on TBN with Perry Stone the other night, that you have comeacross some information supporting the fact that you are of te Hebrew Isrealite lineage. When I came to the knowledge of this great information, I too began to identify with my true people. It is so good to find out just who you are, and that Scripture prophecyn is all about us, the pepole of Yaweh. I would love to have a conversation with you if you think that I am worthy of such a meeting. You have my e-mail address, and my home number is 985-878-4167. Be continually bless my brother. Be blessed.
Forever in Him,
As a Catholic I have never been taught the Rapture, I believe from my Baptist friends who have shown me the scriptures pertaining to it.
However, as a Catholic I know our Christian heritage was steeped in blood, violence, and Martyrdom, so if I were to accept this tribulation rapture thing, I would side with the post tribbers, because I think as Christians we will probably leave this world the same way our ancestors came into it, the same as our beloved Lord Jesus Christ died such a violent death for us sinners, are we so much above Him? Christ? to be swept up before any violence should befall us? I think when Anti-Christ comes, we as Christians will suffer terrible persecutions, and Martyrdom, and I hope and pray I die for Jesus in combat against the beast and his minions, or at the end of an ax, rifle, or noose, as a Martyr for Jesus.
Either way I share in his glory forever. Christ said the who sleep in Christ shall greet him first in the clouds. I think that's really all he meant.
Lea and Susannah should consider all the scripture used by Shaun. You can't just pull a little out of Rev. and Daniel to postulate your doctrine - especially when there is a mountain of other clear passages (which Shaun articulates) that contradict your [false] doctrine. It is amazing how so many Christians are lead astray by a verse or two pulled out of context (and what's worse, pulled out of context in highly figurative and symbolic prophetic scripture).
Thank you, Lea, for the clarity in your comment. I am a Bible scholar and an eschatology student, and my reading of the Word coincides with yours. I'm afraid that many with the outlook and interpretation shared by Shaun Hurrie are of the mistaken opinion that God has forsaken Israel and replaced her with the church. Nowhere does it say that God will forsake His beloved; by contrast, He says that He will never forsake them. Jesus tells the church that she is His bride and that He will come for her. It is a mistake to confuse them.
Jesus tells John in Revelation to: 1. Write what was 2. Write what is 3. Write what is to be. Revelation is not hard to understand. Jesus gives an account of the seven churches. This addresses the actual churches He mentions by name, types of churches, and types of Christians. The Body of Christ, the true believers are not present after the fourth chapter.
Revelation details the Nation of Israel and how God is going to bring His chosen people back to Himself. Under no circumstances is the church going to be on earth during the tribulation. We know the timeline because it is documented in the Book of Daniel.
Nowhere does Jesus even imply that He comes as a thief in the night to his church, for they are watching for Him. They are commanded 20 times to do so. Jesus was speaking of those who were unbelievers or those who didn't heed His commandment to watch. We must always read Bible verses in context of who is being spoken to or of.
I pray for the unsaved. The Rapture of the Church is upon us. This world will be so wicked that we cannot even imagine what is going to happen except we are told throughout the Bible how things will be.
May God have mercy on us all until Christ comes with a shout and we hear the trumpet.
Let me get this right. A novel convinced you of the so-called pre-tribulation rapture of the church? I say so-called as I also believe in tribulation for believers, but I don't narrow it down to merely some 7 year period in the future (with a supposedly more intense last 3.5 year period) after Christ has supposedly taken His church into heaven. A plain reading of the prologue of Revelation in 1:1-3 shows that John was being shown things which would "soon" take place or things that were "near." Pushing the whole book into some undefined future to fit the Dispensational Premillenial system is nothing short of textual masochism, and it would have meant NOTHING to the seven churches to whom the prophecy was originally written. And to top it off, it is these guys (Tim Lahaye, Jack Van Impe etc) who scream the loudest about a consistent "literal" reading of Scripture. Indeed John actually says in the 9th verse of chapter one that he is a "partner in the tribulation..." with the servants of Christ (then and now) who would read this prophecy. Prophecy is NOT simply speculating about future events, but declaring the already revealed truth of God with His authority.
The plain teaching of other clear passages in the NT (which provide the parameter for our understanding of the OT prophecies as well as the book of Revelation; such as John 5:25-29, John 6:35-40, John 14:1-4 almost all the the sermons in Acts, 1 Thess. 4:13-18 (the favorite supposedly silent (??) rapture of the church with the trumpet of God??) and into chapter 5:1-11 talking about the SAME day of Christ's return and 2 Thess 2:1-12) all point to "a day", the "last day" (not 1001 years before the last day) when Christ will return to gather His elect (by resurrection from death or being caught up to join Him in His return) and judge the unbeliever. There is ONE return of Christ (the second coming) ONE resurrection (just a separation between wheat and tares), ONE judgment day. Though there have been periods of more intense tribulation (great tribulation - Matt. 24:21), such as the lead up to and the final destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70, tribulation is part and parcel of living in this present evil age as a follower of Jesus Christ. In fact THE mark of an elect person is that they will endure to the end and receive their inheritance, the consummated ETERNAL (not merely 1000 year) kingdom of God over which Christ now rules (Matt. 10:22, 24:13; Mark 13:13; John 16:33; Acts 2:29-33, 14:22; Rom. 1:1-4).
The bottom line my friend is that the Bible's arguments interpreting the Bible's arguments provides the basic framework for understanding eschatology, not novels with vague references to single proof-texts to fit an already pre-supposed system of "end-times" events.
I write this as a fellow brother in Christ who for 7 years ardently followed the popular prophecy guys for my answers before God convicted me to actually read His word (along with some help from church history for general guidance) as the authority. My view is now much simpler and I don't have to do textual gymnastics to fit everything into the pre-defined prophecy scheme.
Tim Lahayes' series "Left Behind" convinced me that the time for the elect will be shortened and we'll have pre-trib. I also have been taught by many ministers that the church isn't mentioned after the 3rd chapter of Revelation when the woes begin. I also have been assured by the Holy Spirit in my own life that this teaching is true. It is the only way Christ can receive His church "like a thief in the night" because upon His arrival, praise God, to touch down on this earth on the mount of olives, trumpets and the light of His Glory will be quite loud and overwhelming! Zephaniah also talks of "gathering yourselves together before the decree" meaning the church assembles before anti-christs 7-year peace treaty with Israel, according to Perry Stone. Even so come, Lord Jesus.