please share , like and vote to campaign for equality for all uk citizens to vote on british constitutional law referendums changes such as scottish independence on 18th september 2014, not exclude 800,000 scots from that vote.
I myself enquired about voting ,but was denied the right to vote in a constitutional referendum change, on the good friday agreement due to the fact that i was living in uk mainland at that time,despite the fact that i am a british northern irish citizen,living in Britain, yet as part of that arrangement southern ireland had to vote on changing it's constitutional law claim to northern ireland ,thus influencing the british constitution in northern ireland,if neither vote had been passed then the ni assembly would not have happened.
In 1974 all uk citizen's were asked to vote in a referendum vote to join the EU which was passed as a yes vote,thus changing uk constitutional law at that time and then with subsequent EU treaties to date ,now in 2017 david cameron has legislated to ask all uk citizen's whether to remain part of the EU,whilst signing a memorandum of understanding with alex salmond allowing the scottish independence referendum on 18th september 2014, excluding 800,000 british scots in the rest of the uk from that vote,whilst lowering the voting age to 16 how can that be both democratic and equal in terms of human rights, the very things that politicians claim they want from the british public electorate participation and expression in political life.
I have also enquired with the ministry of defense concerning uk force's entitlement to vote in all type's of election's including referendum's today and was informed that all uk forces can vote when they are station outside the uk provided they register to do so by postal vote, one of the reason given by the scottish government for denying 800,000 scots the democratic right to vote in the independence referendum was it would be to difficult to organise ,but if you can prove where you were born,be able to postal vote,just like the armed forces can whilst not being in residence in the uk at the time,then i have to asked what's the problem ?
On the subject of suffrage in the early part of 20th century emily pankhurst campaigned for political equality of voting right franchise for women with men which was eventually achieved, yet in the 21st century, we have politician's denying 800,00 british scottish citizens the opportunity for democratic expression on their own constitutional status ,that smacks to me of discrimination and is 100 percent wrong.
Susan Hetherington - 12 years ago
Live in France but as a pensioner what the British gov do is important to me and I feel they do not have the right to remove my ability to vote when they control what monies I receive and leave me with no say in the matter
John-Ernest Medcalf - 12 years ago
I could perhaps understand the imposition of some voting restricions on long term expats for LOCAL ELECTIONS, but why on general elecctios? matters such as foreign affairs, defense, economic policies, etc. affect ALL British citizens regardless of their place of residence and are as ablr to judge as the rest of the population (if not more thanks to the perspective provided by the distance). What sort of democracy would not allow voting rights to the inhabitans of some cities, towns or counties? well ... what is the differece in a world with current day communications?
John-Ernest Medcalf, Madrid, Spain.
Katharine - 12 years ago
Have lived in France for 20 years. British passport holder. Am registered to vote in French local elections because Im a property owner and pay local taxes here. Cant vote in national/presidential elections here. Cant vote in the UK evn tho Im a property owner in th UK,
jmjohns - 12 years ago
France
Anthea Garrod - 12 years ago
Please cancel the automatic 15 year rule and give me back my right to vote as a British Subject, who just happens to live in another part of the UK
Francis John Garrod - 12 years ago
I live in Cyprus. I still regard myself as British and am aware that my domicile of birth is British. When I die my estate and any death duties attributable will be dealt with by UK and not by Cyprus. Yet the country of my birth, the country of my nationality and the country which will claim from my estate after my death, has refused to allow me to continue voting since I have been abroad for over 15 years. Since I do not want to change my nationality or change my domicile to become Cypriot, I have therefore been effectively disenfranchised by my own country.
Even though I spent my whole working life serving in my country in her Armed Forces, I feel the petty and stringent interpretation of voting rules has meant that my country has REJECTED me. I cannot find any other EU country that interprets the voting rules so harshly for its citizens. Indeed the UK seems to go out of its way to make a very liberal interpretation of its voting rules for any foreigners or citizens of other EU countries living in the UK. Cypriots living in the UK seem to be encouraged to vote in all forms of UK elections and yet Cyprus does not disenfranchise them from also voting in all Cypriot elections, be those elections at EU, Cypriot National or local level. Foreign students living in the UK can even register to vote in the constituency in which they live and also the constituency of their university and then swop between their registered constituencies when it comes to elections. Yet my own country has disenfranchised me.
When is the UK going to stop this atrocious attitude to its own nationals that choose to live outside the UK. There is no logical or moral justification to the attitude taken by the UK, if it still wants to continue to tax us even after death.
My Military and Retirement pensions are decided by the decisions of the UK Government, yet they have disenfranchised me from having a vote to express an opinion on those or any other UK matters. Where is the application of that old adage NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!
Come on UK, do the just and honourable thing, at least GIVE US BACK OUR VOTE and cancel that 15 year arbitrary automatic dis-enfranchment rule!
Derek Mathieson - 12 years ago
I live in France
Simon Kilby - 12 years ago
I live in Austria
Joanne Wright - 12 years ago
I have lived in Spain for over 7 years. I find the anti-EU sentiments that are being expressed in UK disturbing and feel it is vital for all expats to have the continuous right to vote in all elections. What happens over the next few years could have important consequences for those of us living in Europe. We should all have the right to vote and make our voices heard on important issues that effect our daily lives.
Carol Kendall - 12 years ago
I have been living in France for about 30 years and am therefore disenfranchised by the 15 year rule. I cannot vote in France (to be able to do so I would have to apply for French citizenship). I still hold a British passport and have all my roots in the UK (my family live there and I am considering retiring there). The UK legislation is outdated and undemocratic. It could probably be challenged in the courts at European level. This situation is particularly inequitable for those of us living in the EU who will be deprived of the right to vote in any referendum on UK membership of the European Union, a referendum which would affect us directly in our day-to-day lives.
Stuart Dowsett - 12 years ago
Live in Belgium
Cpt Haddock - 12 years ago
Duh.... it makes sense if UK abroad people can vote when they have leave. Not being able to would suck. They do not want their home country going in a particular direction that would clash with their principles/ethos/political views.
Heather Attig - 12 years ago
I've spent the past 25 years living in Germany and Belgium. This week I learned that it's not only the right to vote in UK elections that I've lost. I'm not even allowed to vote in the upcoming European elections because of this ruling. The registration form in Belgium obliges you to declare that "you have not lost the right to vote in your country of origin". If you have lost your right to vote at home, you are not entitled to vote in the European elections either. I find this incredible, especially given the EU's grand principle of "freedom of movement".
Stuart Parker - 12 years ago
I am a British citizen, born and raised in the UK, formerly resident in Belgium for several years and now living in the United States. I find the idea of being stripped of voting rights in my country of citizenship reprehensible. My American friends are appalled and amazed that the UK does this.
keiran carson - 12 years ago
I still live in the uk, but I support the right to vote by expats.
Ian Guthrie - 12 years ago
Until retirement and coming to live in France I was a fully paid up member of British society (NHI, all taxes, rates, community charges, VAT as a small business owner, etc.etc. I earned my retirement and my pension so how is it that the rights I earned by my contribution society are to be curbed. It is a fundamental denial of my human rights and surely must be illegal by any reasonable measure.
Sue Anthony - 12 years ago
I live in France and am coming up to the 15 year limit. I find this limit scandalous and an abuse of my human rights (never thought I'd hear myself saying that!).
Chris Thompson - 12 years ago
And even though I live within the EU, in Spain, I don't get a regional vote in either the UK or here. The most basic democratic right withdrawn because we decide to move home.
Malcolm Dodd - 12 years ago
Since some of us having worked our whole lives in a 'emanation of the state' and have therefore to pay income tax in the UK it seems discriminatory and a denial of basic rights (after American Tea Party!) not to be able to voice any opinion by voting concerning such denials of democracy. (or human rights?!)
Bravo to those countries that have an ex pat MP and allow voting to those abroad;
M
Alisha - 12 years ago
I'm British and live in Jamaica. I wasn't even aware that our right to vote would be withdrawn after 15 years. Scandalous!
Emma Pele - 12 years ago
I'm British and live in France. I think every citizen of the European Union should have the right to vote in their country of origin, no matter where they live.
Alan Mackenzie - 12 years ago
A British subject, I live in Denmark and do think it's a good idea.
Ian Garrow - 12 years ago
I live in Spain. Annoyed that I cannot vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum .
Steve LOCKIE - 12 years ago
I live in France.
Paul Slade - 12 years ago
A related issue is where to have a UK pension paid, as per my letter of 20-January 2014 to Pensions Minister Stephen Webb. There has been no reply. The problem was not solved after my letter of 1 July 2013 (more than half a year ago!) to Webb.
From Alberta, Canada
Mr. Steve Webb, Pensions Minister
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
England
webbs@parliament.uk,steve@stevewebb.org.uk,minister.pensions@dwp.gsi.gov.uk
20 January 2014
Dear Mr. Webb,
Further to my letter of 1 July 2013, we have still not been able to open a UK bank account in accordance with your advice as published in the Telegraph on 26 March 2013. Did you mislead their reporter? Were you mislead by Barclays or HM Treasury? The only account offered to us by Barclays is an expensive one as per Amy Trainor’s letter of 21 June 2013. That is obviously not a basic account aimed at OAPs as presumably you and HM Treasury had in mind. Indeed such an offer looks like a bait-and-switch scam to rip off expat OAPs.
According to the Telegraph you stated: "Customers who do not currently have another bank account may wish to open one. HM Treasury have also worked with Barclays to put in place a process so that individuals can open a bank account quickly if they wish to do so." My wife and I wish to do so! Kindly have this quick process set in motion for us.
Although motivated by the situation of OAPs in Cyprus, it should have been obvious to you and DWP staff such as Mr. John Herron that other expat pensioners who do or could face the same threat would expect to be able to take the same precaution of having their UK pensions paid into UK bank accounts. To do this OAPs who do not currently have a UK bank account need to open one, as per the process HM Treasury has put in place with Barclays.
I expect you to intervene to ensure that Barclays acts in accordance with your statement without any further obstruction or delay. We want to open a joint basic account at Barclays in Coleshill, Warwickshire that my pension may be paid into.
Please confirm by return email that you have received this and are taking action.
Yours truly,
Paul Slade
cc
CAXTONHOUSE.CLERKPRU@DWP.GSI.GOV.UK,ministers@dwp.gsi.gov.uk,dtnews@telegraph.co.uk,tony.gallagher@telegraph.co.uk
Lisa Jeffery - 12 years ago
.....A British passport holder living in Spain!
Cathy Doggrell - 12 years ago
I live in France and only have 5 years 'left' in which to vote in UK general elections (I always do if the postal vote arrives in time!). I have property and future pension rights in the UK so I still should have the right to determine their fate. I'm also a British national. If I were a French national and lived in the UK I would be able to vote in French national elections forever! Ridiculous that we have to look to our European neighbours to show democratic principles!
Patricia Caddick - 12 years ago
My husband and I live in France. We are disenfranchised in both the UK and France.
tony tucker - 12 years ago
I live in France ..... the 15-year rule is arbitrary, uinreasonable and the cause of the most important democratic deficit facing British citizens abroad ...the French can always vite wherever they are, and whenever .... the mother of parliaments needs to right this wrong.
Mrs M.C. Turk - 12 years ago
Your voting record will not record my vote - presumably because I am using my husband's computer to try to record it - and he has already voted. But I too am a British subject - and have NEVER been allowed to vote, even though I am now 80 years old and living in South Africa.
Cedric Talbot - 12 years ago
I have lived in Japan for more than 30 years and I headed up British owned companies for most of that time. Also maintained a home in UK and pay taxes there. Visit every year to see family and friends.
I wrote to Cameron about this unfair rule. Naturally the reply was useless. His minion told me there is no connection between paying tax and the right to vote ! When you look at the list of foreign nationals who are entitled to vote in the UK it makes you wonder what being a British citizen actually means..
I can't understand what benefit political parties get from denying expat votes. Since some of them want votes for children (16 year olds) they must be desperate. Or are the older generation simply of no concern to the current political leadership?
Louise Innes - 12 years ago
I have been living in Spain for12 years now and have voted in local elections in Scotland since coming here, using a friend as my Proxy. I think it is despicable that after 15 years we lose the right to vote. Having worked all my days and claimed nothing apart from the odd sickness benefit I feel very aggrieved that incomers to our country get lots of benefits and they are going to stop our Winter Fuel payment. It gets cold here in Spain as well, the houses are not properly insulated and I can assure anyone in the UK that we suffer from the cold just as much as we did at home. I am also very annoyed that being a Scot I am not allowed to vote in the forthcoming referendum. If I should ever decide to return to Scotland I want it to be as I would like it. Every Scot anywhere in the world should be entitled to vote in this very important issue. I have written to Alec Salmond regarding this but as usual got no reply. Come on all you Scots worldwide write in an object to this discrimination.
Stuart Frearson - 12 years ago
Live in France
Sam Featherston - 12 years ago
I live and work in Germany, but I still have a house in the UK and pay UK tax on some income. I am still a member of a UK political party, read a UK newspaper, and take an active interest in politics, culture and public life.
I soon will no longer be able to vote in UK general elections. I find this very unfair because I don't *gain* the right to vote in German elections. I will be unrepresented. Can that be democratic?
Stephen Gee - 12 years ago
I live in France
Raymond and Sylvia Griffiths - 12 years ago
We lived in the UK for almost 70 years before retiring to France six years ago. We now pay income tax in both countries but have the national election vote in neither.
R.A. Rohleder - 12 years ago
lived in U.K. for 55 years, now live in France. What is the U.K. government afraid of !!!!
pete jeffries - 12 years ago
Don't understand what the fuss is about. Anyone living abroad for a long period of time (such as 15 years or more) has no stake in their home community anymore.
I also. found this on your website:
“Brits abroad are not a burden or an embarrassment:
they are in many ways the best of Britain and we should be proud and
supportive of them.”
I fail to see why Brits abroad would represent the "best of Britain", whatever that might be.
Bill Fairbairn - 12 years ago
I spent over 30 years flying with the RAF, I retired to Spain to enjoy my retirement.
I have to pay UK tax on my military and old age pensions.
If I pay UK tax I want a UK vote please!
Anthony Wingrove - 12 years ago
As a UK passport holder I am legally entitled to vote in national elections in the UK,until I either die or have my passport withdrawn. I should not be disenfranchised because I chose to retire to France,a European Union country.
Jane Golding - 12 years ago
I live in Berlin but have lived in France, Belgium, Italy and now Germany. In other words, I have used my right of free movement to work as a lawyer in different EU states. I lost my right to vote before the last general election, having being away from the UK for more than 15 years. Until then, I remained registered and voted in every election, and also attempted to register at the last election as a protest plus wrote a letter in the European Voice and petitioned my local MP with no success. I have also considered a court case (ECJ or European Court of HR) although Harry Shindler's case suggests the ECHR does not want to intervene (surprising, given their ruling on prisoners' voting rights). At ECJ level, there have been cases and this has been viewed as a matter for national governments. EC officials are also likely to take this approach. All initiatives are useful but I suspect that no-one will sit up and take notice until a substantial number of UK voters (both UK and non-UK resident) petition Parliament about this. We need out families and friends in the UK to push this issue, as well as ex-pats. Most are shocked that I cannot vote anywhere in Europe.
John Roberts - 12 years ago
I have lived in France for a little over two years. I have just registered to vote in the French local elections next year, and would like to continue to vote in Parliamentary and European elections in the UK.
French expats are specifically represented in the French parliamentary system, and so should UK expats be represented in the British Parliament.
IAN FAIRBAIRN - 12 years ago
live in Spain, voted all my life and vote in spanish local elections.
Eddie - 12 years ago
Many of the comments that you have posted have a great deal of relevance so I do hope that they are being monitored for useful aspects of this crazy situation.
Since the Cabinet Office says that the cut off comes after 15 years "because it was thought over time their connection with the UK is likely to diminish" Does this mean that immigrants to the UK CANNOT register to vote for 15 years since they have not yet established a connection with the UK NOR have a history of Income Tax and National Insurance Payments the disposition of which is governed by the way the electorate votes.
yvonne - 12 years ago
France. Can't vote here, can't vote in the UK. Have been totally disenfranchised...
David & Winifred Burrows - 12 years ago
We are living in Spain.
Paul Hitchings - 12 years ago
I am an ex pat living in Spain. I have been out of the UK 15 years now and have kept myself on the electrol regiter all this tiem. voring from abroad. I have just been informed of the losso f my rights to vote. This means I have lost my right to vote ina ny national election. This is a clear breach of the EU freedom of movement of workers. I would like to take this all the way to the ECJ. I am a lawyer. Does anyone have any experience in challening these decisions?
John Holmes - 12 years ago
When decisions are made upon which you have no influence, then is the time when things need to be changed. As a citizen of the UK with a family in the UK, with income and medical benefits from there, we are vitally interested in decisions made by the UK Parliament. When one adds the chicanery that now goes on, (calculation of the Frances average temperature), It becomes even more important to add one's voice and weight in the election of a Government. Add to that that many of those voting in the UK are not citizens of the UK, it is even more galling to realise that if I was a Frenchman living in London I could vote in a French election because I am a French citizen, whereas as British citizen living in France I cannot and neither can I vote in a French National election, without becoming a French citizen.
Michael Thorp - 12 years ago
I think we should have the right to vote in the UK. We care about the UK, our children live there. We need a voice to remedy actions taken by Parliament which affect us adversely.
Raymond Ponton Speare - 12 years ago
I live in Spain . I think if you look at todays temperatures (20-11-2013) you will on average find them lower then England but in any case what about the electricity we have to use during the Summer to keep cool?
should we not get help with this.?
Anne Harvey - 12 years ago
Living in Spain since 2002. Due to a Local Gvt Pension, I continued paying taxes in UK , until 2/3 years ago when my Tax Allowances were higher than my Income! Voted in UK Elections through a Proxy voter and would like to keep doing so.
Patricia Owen - 12 years ago
Catalunya
thomas gibson - 12 years ago
I am 81 years of age worked and paid taxes for 50 years always voted in every election and am now disenfranchised because I moved to Spain for health reasons .Perhaps if our m.p.s could get their snouts out of the trough long enough to give this matter some thought they would see the injustice in this arbitrary rule !!!!
I have lived in Italy for 13 years. I am a lawyer, an English Solicitor, assisting British expats in Italy, and foreign residents with property in Italy.
Robin Harrison - 12 years ago
As an ex-UK local government officer living in France I pay income tax in the UK. What happened to "no taxation without representation"?
Lorraine - 12 years ago
We took early retirement and moved to Spain in 2003.
Peter - 12 years ago
I have retired to France and have lived here for 3 years. I could still register to vote in the last constituency where I was registered in the UK. However I have not because I believe in voting for someone who can represent my interests. The campaign to get expat MPs has my support and also would give us a voice in opposing the 15 year rule. Whilst a petition may help, having someone in Parliament representing us would do more.
we live in spain,and i am ashamed to say we have never voted,but i am now intresed to start voting
Peter - 12 years ago
My wife and I are retired and have been resident in Spain for 6 years.
DICKIE BRIGGS - 12 years ago
I assume that to stop people multi-voting the poll will only accept on vote per email address. if this assumption is correct, how does my wife register her vote.
Reg - 12 years ago
What do our MPs not get? are they so blinded by the greed that they forget the people who put them in power, and are the people who can also sling them out . We elected them to work for us, Not,.. us, to work for them, to pay their extravagant expenses and have plush wallpaper on their office and toilet walls and,cases of cheap wine and subsidised meals .WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?????.Wish i had a gold plated pension of well over £200,000 i would not be living hand to mouth and paying the PM and his cronies 6 figure sums a year for less work than i had to do for my £16,000 a year ...... Come on you greedy people in Westminster... get real and down to earth, live on the pensioners wage for one whole year... without all your bank accounts and extra income from business interests ...then you will understand what you are doing to mankind and how you are killing the goose that layed the golden ......SHAME ON YOU ALL
anthony beard - 12 years ago
I live in Spain, for mainly health reasons, but I feel, and I am British by birth. I feel that as I have paid all my dues to the british government since I was 18 years old, I should be entitled to have my say on who is chosen to run my country of birth, as many things, i.e. health and pensions for example, would benefit from my imput.
Graham Gilbert - 12 years ago
I am a British Citizen, born in London in 1942 of British parents. I have worked abroad in Africa for more than 20 years, and am now retired in France. I have owned a house in Thanet for 50 years, and have always been subject to UK Council Tax and UK income tax. I have had a National Insurance Number since age 17 and continuously paid NI contributions until my retirement at 65, and now receive the UK state pension.
I understand that if I reside in the UK for more than 6 months within any one year, I then become re-eligible to vote in any UK Local Council and General Elections. Does this mean that as I am then re-entered onto the electoral register, I can vote not only in any UK election during that coming year, but also earn another 15 year block of proxy votes, even though I may not be resident in the UK for the 6 months+ in any of the subsequent years??
Jane Brooks - 12 years ago
I live in France and return to the UK every month to see family. I also feel that it is most unjust that I do not have the right to vote. My daughter who has both French and British nationality has gone to live in Spain, has married a Spaniard and still is able to vote in France.
Alan Reid - 12 years ago
I first lived in Luxembourg 1973-1981, then Brussels to date. I would make two points.
1. I think that the reducing of the cut-off from 20 to 15 years was the first time ever British citizens had the vote taken away from them.
2. My dual-nationality children born in Belgium exercise certain voting rights in France whereas the UK treat them as aliens in this regard.
Michael Rogers - 12 years ago
Belgium:
We first left the UK with the Diplomatic Service never immagining that this would lead to a loss of voting rights. Its a strange world in which doing something for ones country is rewarded so poorly!
michael neave - 12 years ago
I now live in France but was born in England of english parents (jncidently my father served in the 1914/18 and the 1939/45 wars) . I worked ,more or less continuously for 45 years and paid income tax and national insurance contributions over this period. I'm still paying tax to the U K government on my pension ,which I fully contributed to. I am 78years old and have not used the british national health service for over 10 years although I have had both hips and a my knee implants done , spinal and heart surgery , and radio therapy for prostate cancer , all carried out in France for which I pay a seperate insurance .
Where I live ,the average winter temperatures are lower than w here I used to live near the Hampshire coast, we quite often experience minus10° C , They are now talking about taking away the winter fuel allowance!! I bet Peter Viggers will keep his (when he qualifies) for his Gosport duck houses.
Cliff Turk - 13 years ago
I am 81 years old. I live in South Africa, mainly because I can't afford the ridiculous prices in UK. My UK pension was calculated on the contributions I made, which as far as I know is the same method as for everybody, but I have never had an increase as do those living in UK. I do not get any free medical sevices - not even when I am in the UK on a visit (This was specifically refused by both the local doctor and by the district hospital.) I do not get optical assistance, hearing treatment or any dental treatment - not even a small subsidy towards those expenses, but those living in UK get the whole lot! The Govenment is thus making a huge profit on me compared with other pensioners, but I am unable to complain bcause I do not have a vote. However while my daughter, who is a British citizen, lived in my house in UK for 2 years, both she and her South African fiancee were registered to vote - and both did so. My now son-in-law objected to this registration, but was told by the official that as he was living in UK he MUST register to vote. How stupid can officialdom get?
Incidentally, my wife who qualified for a UK pension in her own right by her own payments, and is also British, is in exactly the same position as me. Recently we have heard about a winter fuel allowance. When was this introduced? And why were we not informed about it? Even if we are excluded from that benefit while outside UK, it might make a difference to our ability to survive if we return to UK on a permanent basis.
I believe that all those who are in the same situation as me and my wife, regardless of where they live in the world, should receive a little justice and fair treatment.
Evelyn Garrow - 13 years ago
I live in Spain
Andrew - 13 years ago
France. We should be able to vote somewhere!
Carol - 13 years ago
We live in Spain.
Gail Mitchell - 13 years ago
A Britsh citizen living in Spain whom hasn't been able to vote in any General Election in the last 35 years.
WHY ARE EXPATS TREATED AS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS BY THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT?
The British Government need to consider the following and ask themseves why are they treating expats as second class citizens.
Expats play an important role in promoting British culture and British Trade in Spain
Many expats are employed teaching English to children,university students and in International companies where English is needed to do business .Sometimes these companies are British and are located here as labour and other costs are cheaper.
Pensioners support British shops and therefore are supporting British exports.They have decided to spend thier retirement in a warmer climate after working hard all their lives Therefore it is a disgrace that they have their right to vote taken away from them.Furthermore,they still have their savings and family in the UK
The Goverment needs to wake up and support expats.Expats must be given their right to vote either in General Elections in the UK or in their country of residence.It is a disgrace that the Goverrnment can take away the human right to vote.Reforms must be made.
What sort of democracy is it where a Government can arbitrarily disenfranchise some of its citizens? Come on UK Government - it's time you joined the real world!
Peter - 13 years ago
Spain
DIANA GRAYLAND - 13 years ago
I have long supported our right to have the vote in the UK elections and feel scandalized that we are are effectively disenfranchised.
I haven't read as the comments as there are so many, but I wonder whether people have considered what will happen if there is a referendum in the UK, as the Prime Minister has promised, to stay in the EU or to get out? Are we not to have a vote on this either?
This is something that will directly affect us and, for those of us in the EU, would have very serious consequences if the referendum resulted in the UK leaving the EU. We would go back to the days when we had to queue for hours for residence papers, would find it even more difficult to find a job, open a bank account etc etc, and for those of us who have lived abroad for years, it doesn't bear thinking about. And, unless we take out nationality of our host country, we would continue without a vote.
I would like to know where the best places are for me to write to direct. If someone can guide me, I would be happy to do just that.
Mark - 13 years ago
I live in Italy. I think that taking away our right to vote is a scandal!
Sandra - 13 years ago
I live in Germany.
Robin Fenton - 13 years ago
Our other EEC Friends consider the attitude of the British Government, particularly in relation to Voting, but also in its failure to control the attempts of the BBC/ITV and other Broadcasters who are presently trying to make sure that we can not receive any Sat broadcasts at all. I am quite sure that most of us would pay a reasonable Annual License Fee in order to receive Broadcasts from home. We are rapidly becoming the joke of Europe, completely disowned by our Home Country. Look at the ridiculous statements issued on the subject of the Heating Allowance! It is only recently, here in Spain, that people have been given real help and advice over the mess relating to EHIC Cards, so perhaps they will now address other matters too! Why should British Expats lose more and more rights compared to their EEC Amigos!?
John Pittaway - 13 years ago
Please read this letter that I received last year when I complained about the WFA.
Mr and Mrs Patricia Pittaway
john.pitta@yahoo.co.ukOur Ref: TO/12/18028
21 September 2012
Dear Mr and Mrs Pittaway
Thank you for your e-mail of 30 August to the Secretary of State about the Winter Fuel Payment. Government Ministers receive a large volume of correspondence and they are unable to reply personally on every occasion. Therefore, I have been asked to respond.
Winter Fuel Payments were introduced as one initiative in the Government’s commitment to tackle fuel poverty in Great Britain.
To qualify a person has to have reached women’s State Pension age during or before the qualifying week and be ordinarily resident in the UK. By ordinarily resident we mean that the person must normally live here and not just be present for all or part of the qualifying week.
Under European law some benefits paid in one Member State must also be paid to people who live outside that State but within the European Economic Area (EEA).
In the past, to comply with the European law, the Government only used to pay Winter Fuel Payments to former UK residents living elsewhere in the EEA and Switzerland if they qualified for a payment in the UK before moving abroad.
However, following a judgment in the European Court of Justice in 2011, the Government has changed its export rules. It is now possible for people to receive a Winter Fuel Payment in the EEA and Switzerland without having acquired it in this country first as long as they have a genuine and sufficient link with the UK.
With regard to your comment about the ‘temperature test’, Winter Fuel Payments are designed to help pensioners keep warm in the cold British weather, not for those living in hot countries. Ministers intend to bring in a temperature criterion so payments can only be made to British pensioners living in cold climates.
Thank you for your comments about the temperatures in Spain. There are a number of factors that Government will need to consider before this legislation is brought before Parliament. Details of how the scheme will work have not yet been decided.
Yours sincerely
Goff Daft
Head of the Correspondence Team
Seems that the payment of WFA has already been decided by the Government, all of them are a load of PLONKERS!
John Littlechild - 13 years ago
Having spent almost my entire (44 years)working life in Government Service, much of this overseas, and having finally retired to live in Thailand, I am subject to a frozen pension, loss of treatment under the National Health, no extras such as bus pass, WFA etc etc etc and THE LOSS OF MY VOTE (I have applied for re-registration but did not even receive a reply). I still pay UK tax however! NO TAXATION WITHOUT RTEPRESENTATION!
Mr Leonard Harvey & Mrs Leontine Harvey - 13 years ago
We have emailed Robert Buckland MP regarding expats voting in the UK together with our rights to the Winter Fuel payments several times, the last time being the 11-10-2012. We just cannot understand how any Country can treat their citizens so badly. Also, my wife has voted on this online petition and now it will not allow me to vote making this petition a ONE vote per household and this also is not right. It's all very sad!!
Robert Alderson - 13 years ago
In 2005 I moved from East Grinstead to the United States. I maintained my electoral registration with Mid Sussex council and last voted in the 2010 General Election by post.It recently emerged that I had been removed from the electoral register. My wife received an annual review letter and I did not get a letter. I asked Mid Sussex what was going on and they told me that they had no record of my being on the register. They later conceded that I was registered until 2009/10 but did not explain why I had been removed.I completed new forms to re-register and submitted them on September 4th.
Mid Sussex has not confirmed that I am now back on the register and has not explained why I was deprived of my right to vote without being notified.
I take this issue very seriously and am determined to get to the bottom of it. I am sure that you would agree that it is simply not acceptable to arbitrarily deprive somebody of the franchise in this way without making any effort to check facts or inform the voter concerned. Any advice or assistance you can give in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Terry - 13 years ago
As a Retired Fire Officer who has lived in Spain for over 15 years, having a pension that is taxed in the UK & paying taxes also here in Spain ,its crazy to me that I can no longer vote in the UK & only vote in local elections ( for the Mayor ) here in Spain. I paid taxes all my working life in the UK & all I get from the government is my pension and Medical coverage here in Spain. When I moved out here I had to prove to the local authorities that I had enough funds to support myself, which I did. Now I see all the riff raffs from all over the world descending on the UK. It seems the first thing they say is Social Security & the government fall over them giving them houses, money etc. even though they have never contributed a penny to it. I also bet they will get WFP without question. I would like to see David Cameron live out here over a winter without heat, yes it's not as cold ( below zero ) as in the UK, but with the very high humidity we have here over the winter even though we are above zero with the humidity it feels just as cold as the UK.
Freddie - 13 years ago
I cannot believe the arrogance of the individuals in government who dare to remove the basic rights of any pensioner wherever he/she chooses to live out their remaining years. Like all pensioners I have paid all my dues during my working life, which in turn gives me the right to retain my pension, the right to vote, the right to retain my passport, the right to any allowance enjoyed by all UK based pensioners to the day that I die, wherever I choose to live.
Susan Ripley - 13 years ago
I live m resident of Spain, worked 40 years in the uk paying all my dues, I am amazed that they want to take away my right to vote I am British subject and always will be., I therefore consider I should have the same rights as a uk resident.
geoff burley - 13 years ago
I live in cyprus
Paul Whitfield - 13 years ago
I pay my tax in the UK. There are many issues that affect my family, my income, national security and our place and image in the world. I have strong political views and I am absolutely furious that I will be disenfranchised. Many years ago I worked with Irish people who, I believe, were entitled to vote in the UK even when they returned to Ireland. We read of the rights of foreign people living in the UK, to benefits and housing, but the British government seems to give a much lower priority to looking after its own citizens, most who have worked and contributed to the benefit of the nation. What I ask is to be achieved by denying us the vote and what costs can possibly be saved? There seems to me no just or earthly reason to deny the many British people living abroad the fundamental right vote. I sincerely hope this campaign succeeds and I thank Harry Shindler for his tenacious efforts.
Phil Christmas - 13 years ago
I moved to Spain in 1990 at the age of 29 and remain a British citizen. I am currently disenfranchised as I am not eligible to vote in the national elections either in my country of origin or in my country of chosen residence. I fully support a demand for change to the current EU legislation which permits member states to make their own rules and has allowed both the UK and Spain to bar me (and thousands like me) from voting in the national elections of any country. The situation is anachronistic and prejudicial to the many EU citizens who have exercised their right to live where they want.
Although it is not my personal situation, I also support the right to vote in the UK by expatriates who remain UK citizens but have chosen to live outside the UK for prolonged periods of time.
michael cushing - 13 years ago
I have posted many comments on these issues and am very surprised at lack of reply comments . ALL EXPATS ( Under 15yr) AND EXILES ( over 15yr ) APPLY TO VOTE - at ones last UK Electoral Registration office , that way any input from Electoral Com. in Westminster debates will be factual not hearsay / internet blogs and the like ie number of overseas voters / refusals . If refused like me ; UN and ECHR have protocol / definition of CITIZEN AND RIGHT TO REPRESENTATION = LOSS OF RIGHT TO REPRESENTATION IS A LOSS OF IDENTITY . This will have to be addressed by ECHR in Harry Shindler appeal soon as it is at odds with its previous rulings / définitions . My previous blog what is the diference between a Government that DECIDES to send troops against its CITIZENS ( numbers unknown )and a Government that DEBATES AND DECIDES to DISENFRANCHISE ( 5.5 M ?,) CITIZENS , fundermentaly / simplistically . I do not comprehend the diference
Ron Ruth - 13 years ago
I have now lived in Vietnam with my Vietnamese wife for two years, I am dismayed that I am unable to even register to vote since the requirement to have my signature verified by another British passport holding expat in Vietnam. The British Embassy/Consulate does not provide the service and who are of no help where passports are concerned and flatly refuse to answer queries with regard to renewal.
Howard Whipday - 13 years ago
I have recently retired to Cyprus having spent all my working life pay my taxes and national insurance to the UK Goverment. This included 32 years in Her Majesty's Armed Forces serving Queen and country. I am proud to be British and will always be British, where ever I live, so why should I lose the right to vote in the country I have been proud to serve for most of my life.
Mike Pardoe - 13 years ago
Currently resident in France for past 7 years previously registered in Essex.
Leonard Case - 13 years ago
Pensioner living in Australia. Twenty five years in British Armed Forces, 15 years working for the British Government abroad. State Pension frozen in 2007 and now to lose voting rights. What a load of insensitive pay grabbing individuals our Government and Opposition party are. It is no wonder they want to stop all ex-pat and pensioners voting rights. They disgust me.
Patrick Pavey - 13 years ago
Moved to France from the UK in January after retirement, and have registered as an "overseas voter" in the constituency where I formerly lived. I follow UK current affairs and wish to continue to be able to vote, for MORE than the next 15 years I hope! I would support introduction of an on-line voting system to avoid postal delays which could make my vote invalid.
a m bryant - 13 years ago
Living in France with my French wife. She lived in UK for about 20 years and could vote in UK elections.
I have been away from UK for about 20 years so have lost the right to vote.
Can anyone justify this? What is the UK government's argument in favour of disenfranchising me?
Sarah Samantha Emmitt - 13 years ago
I will do this short and sweet - I have been living in Spain for 25 years, my husband is Spanish, I can vote in the local elections and europeans , however I am a 'persona no grata' why because I pay my taxes here in Spain but have no vote on all elections. The local Morro orChino, somehow has that right not forgetting they are taking work from Spanish. As I have been here for half my life I just want my vote back which was mine from the day I was born until I die, Emily Pankhurst would be turning in her grave, the in justice which has been given to me
Andrew Clark - 13 years ago
I live in France, where I have lived now for 11 years. I object very strongly to the attitude of the British government and British institutions which seem to think that those of us who live across the Channel are no longer part of their responsibility and whose democratic rights are no longer of interest to them. This is in contrast to French and Italian governments who treat their ex-patriates as if they are fully part of their nations and treat them accordingly. For all I know Britain is alone in Europe in this regard.
michael Cushing - 13 years ago
I do not understand DAVID GRAVES-MOORE ( 4 days ago ) re EU / Maastrikt Treaty etc . By his declaration paying UK tax and UKcontributions for the last 5.5 years living in Cyprus he is openly declaring he is NOT A RESIDENT IN CYPRUS . To be a resident in another country you are normally obliged to register in the country of residence ( most countries have adopted that factor in thier tax / residence laws ) and pay your taxes ( ON YOUR GLOBAL FINANCES ) in that country . There are exceptions of course - globally accepted Under double tax treaties eg ; income from a fixed asset/ property , ex government employee pensions tax being payable in the respective country ONLY . Old age pensions - state / private are taxable ONLY IN THE COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE - NO TAX NO RESIDENCE SIMPLE . Having been "exiled" for the last 20+ years on mainland Europe there seems to be a big % of Brits who think they can elect ( in some case exclude ) where they pay taxes - Those of you who follow this line will find out that If you own a property in "your country of residence " you will pay not only Capital Gains tax but ( with Europe integrating its tax systems including UK ) more than likely have to pay by way of witholding from sale gains ( at least in France ) your taxes that should have been payed this could take years !!! .
please share , like and vote to campaign for equality for all uk citizens to vote on british constitutional law referendums changes such as scottish independence on 18th september 2014, not exclude 800,000 scots from that vote.
I myself enquired about voting ,but was denied the right to vote in a constitutional referendum change, on the good friday agreement due to the fact that i was living in uk mainland at that time,despite the fact that i am a british northern irish citizen,living in Britain, yet as part of that arrangement southern ireland had to vote on changing it's constitutional law claim to northern ireland ,thus influencing the british constitution in northern ireland,if neither vote had been passed then the ni assembly would not have happened.
In 1974 all uk citizen's were asked to vote in a referendum vote to join the EU which was passed as a yes vote,thus changing uk constitutional law at that time and then with subsequent EU treaties to date ,now in 2017 david cameron has legislated to ask all uk citizen's whether to remain part of the EU,whilst signing a memorandum of understanding with alex salmond allowing the scottish independence referendum on 18th september 2014, excluding 800,000 british scots in the rest of the uk from that vote,whilst lowering the voting age to 16 how can that be both democratic and equal in terms of human rights, the very things that politicians claim they want from the british public electorate participation and expression in political life.
I have also enquired with the ministry of defense concerning uk force's entitlement to vote in all type's of election's including referendum's today and was informed that all uk forces can vote when they are station outside the uk provided they register to do so by postal vote, one of the reason given by the scottish government for denying 800,000 scots the democratic right to vote in the independence referendum was it would be to difficult to organise ,but if you can prove where you were born,be able to postal vote,just like the armed forces can whilst not being in residence in the uk at the time,then i have to asked what's the problem ?
On the subject of suffrage in the early part of 20th century emily pankhurst campaigned for political equality of voting right franchise for women with men which was eventually achieved, yet in the 21st century, we have politician's denying 800,00 british scottish citizens the opportunity for democratic expression on their own constitutional status ,that smacks to me of discrimination and is 100 percent wrong.
Live in France but as a pensioner what the British gov do is important to me and I feel they do not have the right to remove my ability to vote when they control what monies I receive and leave me with no say in the matter
I could perhaps understand the imposition of some voting restricions on long term expats for LOCAL ELECTIONS, but why on general elecctios? matters such as foreign affairs, defense, economic policies, etc. affect ALL British citizens regardless of their place of residence and are as ablr to judge as the rest of the population (if not more thanks to the perspective provided by the distance). What sort of democracy would not allow voting rights to the inhabitans of some cities, towns or counties? well ... what is the differece in a world with current day communications?
John-Ernest Medcalf, Madrid, Spain.
Have lived in France for 20 years. British passport holder. Am registered to vote in French local elections because Im a property owner and pay local taxes here. Cant vote in national/presidential elections here. Cant vote in the UK evn tho Im a property owner in th UK,
France
Please cancel the automatic 15 year rule and give me back my right to vote as a British Subject, who just happens to live in another part of the UK
I live in Cyprus. I still regard myself as British and am aware that my domicile of birth is British. When I die my estate and any death duties attributable will be dealt with by UK and not by Cyprus. Yet the country of my birth, the country of my nationality and the country which will claim from my estate after my death, has refused to allow me to continue voting since I have been abroad for over 15 years. Since I do not want to change my nationality or change my domicile to become Cypriot, I have therefore been effectively disenfranchised by my own country.
Even though I spent my whole working life serving in my country in her Armed Forces, I feel the petty and stringent interpretation of voting rules has meant that my country has REJECTED me. I cannot find any other EU country that interprets the voting rules so harshly for its citizens. Indeed the UK seems to go out of its way to make a very liberal interpretation of its voting rules for any foreigners or citizens of other EU countries living in the UK. Cypriots living in the UK seem to be encouraged to vote in all forms of UK elections and yet Cyprus does not disenfranchise them from also voting in all Cypriot elections, be those elections at EU, Cypriot National or local level. Foreign students living in the UK can even register to vote in the constituency in which they live and also the constituency of their university and then swop between their registered constituencies when it comes to elections. Yet my own country has disenfranchised me.
When is the UK going to stop this atrocious attitude to its own nationals that choose to live outside the UK. There is no logical or moral justification to the attitude taken by the UK, if it still wants to continue to tax us even after death.
My Military and Retirement pensions are decided by the decisions of the UK Government, yet they have disenfranchised me from having a vote to express an opinion on those or any other UK matters. Where is the application of that old adage NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!
Come on UK, do the just and honourable thing, at least GIVE US BACK OUR VOTE and cancel that 15 year arbitrary automatic dis-enfranchment rule!
I live in France
I live in Austria
I have lived in Spain for over 7 years. I find the anti-EU sentiments that are being expressed in UK disturbing and feel it is vital for all expats to have the continuous right to vote in all elections. What happens over the next few years could have important consequences for those of us living in Europe. We should all have the right to vote and make our voices heard on important issues that effect our daily lives.
I have been living in France for about 30 years and am therefore disenfranchised by the 15 year rule. I cannot vote in France (to be able to do so I would have to apply for French citizenship). I still hold a British passport and have all my roots in the UK (my family live there and I am considering retiring there). The UK legislation is outdated and undemocratic. It could probably be challenged in the courts at European level. This situation is particularly inequitable for those of us living in the EU who will be deprived of the right to vote in any referendum on UK membership of the European Union, a referendum which would affect us directly in our day-to-day lives.
Live in Belgium
Duh.... it makes sense if UK abroad people can vote when they have leave. Not being able to would suck. They do not want their home country going in a particular direction that would clash with their principles/ethos/political views.
I've spent the past 25 years living in Germany and Belgium. This week I learned that it's not only the right to vote in UK elections that I've lost. I'm not even allowed to vote in the upcoming European elections because of this ruling. The registration form in Belgium obliges you to declare that "you have not lost the right to vote in your country of origin". If you have lost your right to vote at home, you are not entitled to vote in the European elections either. I find this incredible, especially given the EU's grand principle of "freedom of movement".
I am a British citizen, born and raised in the UK, formerly resident in Belgium for several years and now living in the United States. I find the idea of being stripped of voting rights in my country of citizenship reprehensible. My American friends are appalled and amazed that the UK does this.
I still live in the uk, but I support the right to vote by expats.
Until retirement and coming to live in France I was a fully paid up member of British society (NHI, all taxes, rates, community charges, VAT as a small business owner, etc.etc. I earned my retirement and my pension so how is it that the rights I earned by my contribution society are to be curbed. It is a fundamental denial of my human rights and surely must be illegal by any reasonable measure.
I live in France and am coming up to the 15 year limit. I find this limit scandalous and an abuse of my human rights (never thought I'd hear myself saying that!).
And even though I live within the EU, in Spain, I don't get a regional vote in either the UK or here. The most basic democratic right withdrawn because we decide to move home.
Since some of us having worked our whole lives in a 'emanation of the state' and have therefore to pay income tax in the UK it seems discriminatory and a denial of basic rights (after American Tea Party!) not to be able to voice any opinion by voting concerning such denials of democracy. (or human rights?!)
Bravo to those countries that have an ex pat MP and allow voting to those abroad;
M
I'm British and live in Jamaica. I wasn't even aware that our right to vote would be withdrawn after 15 years. Scandalous!
I'm British and live in France. I think every citizen of the European Union should have the right to vote in their country of origin, no matter where they live.
A British subject, I live in Denmark and do think it's a good idea.
I live in Spain. Annoyed that I cannot vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum .
I live in France.
A related issue is where to have a UK pension paid, as per my letter of 20-January 2014 to Pensions Minister Stephen Webb. There has been no reply. The problem was not solved after my letter of 1 July 2013 (more than half a year ago!) to Webb.
From Alberta, Canada
Mr. Steve Webb, Pensions Minister
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
England
webbs@parliament.uk,steve@stevewebb.org.uk,minister.pensions@dwp.gsi.gov.uk
20 January 2014
Dear Mr. Webb,
Further to my letter of 1 July 2013, we have still not been able to open a UK bank account in accordance with your advice as published in the Telegraph on 26 March 2013. Did you mislead their reporter? Were you mislead by Barclays or HM Treasury? The only account offered to us by Barclays is an expensive one as per Amy Trainor’s letter of 21 June 2013. That is obviously not a basic account aimed at OAPs as presumably you and HM Treasury had in mind. Indeed such an offer looks like a bait-and-switch scam to rip off expat OAPs.
According to the Telegraph you stated: "Customers who do not currently have another bank account may wish to open one. HM Treasury have also worked with Barclays to put in place a process so that individuals can open a bank account quickly if they wish to do so." My wife and I wish to do so! Kindly have this quick process set in motion for us.
Although motivated by the situation of OAPs in Cyprus, it should have been obvious to you and DWP staff such as Mr. John Herron that other expat pensioners who do or could face the same threat would expect to be able to take the same precaution of having their UK pensions paid into UK bank accounts. To do this OAPs who do not currently have a UK bank account need to open one, as per the process HM Treasury has put in place with Barclays.
I expect you to intervene to ensure that Barclays acts in accordance with your statement without any further obstruction or delay. We want to open a joint basic account at Barclays in Coleshill, Warwickshire that my pension may be paid into.
Please confirm by return email that you have received this and are taking action.
Yours truly,
Paul Slade
cc
CAXTONHOUSE.CLERKPRU@DWP.GSI.GOV.UK,ministers@dwp.gsi.gov.uk,dtnews@telegraph.co.uk,tony.gallagher@telegraph.co.uk
.....A British passport holder living in Spain!
I live in France and only have 5 years 'left' in which to vote in UK general elections (I always do if the postal vote arrives in time!). I have property and future pension rights in the UK so I still should have the right to determine their fate. I'm also a British national. If I were a French national and lived in the UK I would be able to vote in French national elections forever! Ridiculous that we have to look to our European neighbours to show democratic principles!
My husband and I live in France. We are disenfranchised in both the UK and France.
I live in France ..... the 15-year rule is arbitrary, uinreasonable and the cause of the most important democratic deficit facing British citizens abroad ...the French can always vite wherever they are, and whenever .... the mother of parliaments needs to right this wrong.
Your voting record will not record my vote - presumably because I am using my husband's computer to try to record it - and he has already voted. But I too am a British subject - and have NEVER been allowed to vote, even though I am now 80 years old and living in South Africa.
I have lived in Japan for more than 30 years and I headed up British owned companies for most of that time. Also maintained a home in UK and pay taxes there. Visit every year to see family and friends.
I wrote to Cameron about this unfair rule. Naturally the reply was useless. His minion told me there is no connection between paying tax and the right to vote ! When you look at the list of foreign nationals who are entitled to vote in the UK it makes you wonder what being a British citizen actually means..
I can't understand what benefit political parties get from denying expat votes. Since some of them want votes for children (16 year olds) they must be desperate. Or are the older generation simply of no concern to the current political leadership?
I have been living in Spain for12 years now and have voted in local elections in Scotland since coming here, using a friend as my Proxy. I think it is despicable that after 15 years we lose the right to vote. Having worked all my days and claimed nothing apart from the odd sickness benefit I feel very aggrieved that incomers to our country get lots of benefits and they are going to stop our Winter Fuel payment. It gets cold here in Spain as well, the houses are not properly insulated and I can assure anyone in the UK that we suffer from the cold just as much as we did at home. I am also very annoyed that being a Scot I am not allowed to vote in the forthcoming referendum. If I should ever decide to return to Scotland I want it to be as I would like it. Every Scot anywhere in the world should be entitled to vote in this very important issue. I have written to Alec Salmond regarding this but as usual got no reply. Come on all you Scots worldwide write in an object to this discrimination.
Live in France
I live and work in Germany, but I still have a house in the UK and pay UK tax on some income. I am still a member of a UK political party, read a UK newspaper, and take an active interest in politics, culture and public life.
I soon will no longer be able to vote in UK general elections. I find this very unfair because I don't *gain* the right to vote in German elections. I will be unrepresented. Can that be democratic?
I live in France
We lived in the UK for almost 70 years before retiring to France six years ago. We now pay income tax in both countries but have the national election vote in neither.
lived in U.K. for 55 years, now live in France. What is the U.K. government afraid of !!!!
Don't understand what the fuss is about. Anyone living abroad for a long period of time (such as 15 years or more) has no stake in their home community anymore.
I also. found this on your website:
“Brits abroad are not a burden or an embarrassment:
they are in many ways the best of Britain and we should be proud and
supportive of them.”
I fail to see why Brits abroad would represent the "best of Britain", whatever that might be.
I spent over 30 years flying with the RAF, I retired to Spain to enjoy my retirement.
I have to pay UK tax on my military and old age pensions.
If I pay UK tax I want a UK vote please!
As a UK passport holder I am legally entitled to vote in national elections in the UK,until I either die or have my passport withdrawn. I should not be disenfranchised because I chose to retire to France,a European Union country.
I live in Berlin but have lived in France, Belgium, Italy and now Germany. In other words, I have used my right of free movement to work as a lawyer in different EU states. I lost my right to vote before the last general election, having being away from the UK for more than 15 years. Until then, I remained registered and voted in every election, and also attempted to register at the last election as a protest plus wrote a letter in the European Voice and petitioned my local MP with no success. I have also considered a court case (ECJ or European Court of HR) although Harry Shindler's case suggests the ECHR does not want to intervene (surprising, given their ruling on prisoners' voting rights). At ECJ level, there have been cases and this has been viewed as a matter for national governments. EC officials are also likely to take this approach. All initiatives are useful but I suspect that no-one will sit up and take notice until a substantial number of UK voters (both UK and non-UK resident) petition Parliament about this. We need out families and friends in the UK to push this issue, as well as ex-pats. Most are shocked that I cannot vote anywhere in Europe.
I have lived in France for a little over two years. I have just registered to vote in the French local elections next year, and would like to continue to vote in Parliamentary and European elections in the UK.
French expats are specifically represented in the French parliamentary system, and so should UK expats be represented in the British Parliament.
live in Spain, voted all my life and vote in spanish local elections.
Many of the comments that you have posted have a great deal of relevance so I do hope that they are being monitored for useful aspects of this crazy situation.
Since the Cabinet Office says that the cut off comes after 15 years "because it was thought over time their connection with the UK is likely to diminish" Does this mean that immigrants to the UK CANNOT register to vote for 15 years since they have not yet established a connection with the UK NOR have a history of Income Tax and National Insurance Payments the disposition of which is governed by the way the electorate votes.
France. Can't vote here, can't vote in the UK. Have been totally disenfranchised...
We are living in Spain.
I am an ex pat living in Spain. I have been out of the UK 15 years now and have kept myself on the electrol regiter all this tiem. voring from abroad. I have just been informed of the losso f my rights to vote. This means I have lost my right to vote ina ny national election. This is a clear breach of the EU freedom of movement of workers. I would like to take this all the way to the ECJ. I am a lawyer. Does anyone have any experience in challening these decisions?
When decisions are made upon which you have no influence, then is the time when things need to be changed. As a citizen of the UK with a family in the UK, with income and medical benefits from there, we are vitally interested in decisions made by the UK Parliament. When one adds the chicanery that now goes on, (calculation of the Frances average temperature), It becomes even more important to add one's voice and weight in the election of a Government. Add to that that many of those voting in the UK are not citizens of the UK, it is even more galling to realise that if I was a Frenchman living in London I could vote in a French election because I am a French citizen, whereas as British citizen living in France I cannot and neither can I vote in a French National election, without becoming a French citizen.
I think we should have the right to vote in the UK. We care about the UK, our children live there. We need a voice to remedy actions taken by Parliament which affect us adversely.
I live in Spain . I think if you look at todays temperatures (20-11-2013) you will on average find them lower then England but in any case what about the electricity we have to use during the Summer to keep cool?
should we not get help with this.?
Living in Spain since 2002. Due to a Local Gvt Pension, I continued paying taxes in UK , until 2/3 years ago when my Tax Allowances were higher than my Income! Voted in UK Elections through a Proxy voter and would like to keep doing so.
Catalunya
I am 81 years of age worked and paid taxes for 50 years always voted in every election and am now disenfranchised because I moved to Spain for health reasons .Perhaps if our m.p.s could get their snouts out of the trough long enough to give this matter some thought they would see the injustice in this arbitrary rule !!!!
France
I have lived in Italy for 13 years. I am a lawyer, an English Solicitor, assisting British expats in Italy, and foreign residents with property in Italy.
As an ex-UK local government officer living in France I pay income tax in the UK. What happened to "no taxation without representation"?
We took early retirement and moved to Spain in 2003.
I have retired to France and have lived here for 3 years. I could still register to vote in the last constituency where I was registered in the UK. However I have not because I believe in voting for someone who can represent my interests. The campaign to get expat MPs has my support and also would give us a voice in opposing the 15 year rule. Whilst a petition may help, having someone in Parliament representing us would do more.
we live in spain,and i am ashamed to say we have never voted,but i am now intresed to start voting
My wife and I are retired and have been resident in Spain for 6 years.
I assume that to stop people multi-voting the poll will only accept on vote per email address. if this assumption is correct, how does my wife register her vote.
What do our MPs not get? are they so blinded by the greed that they forget the people who put them in power, and are the people who can also sling them out . We elected them to work for us, Not,.. us, to work for them, to pay their extravagant expenses and have plush wallpaper on their office and toilet walls and,cases of cheap wine and subsidised meals .WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?????.Wish i had a gold plated pension of well over £200,000 i would not be living hand to mouth and paying the PM and his cronies 6 figure sums a year for less work than i had to do for my £16,000 a year ...... Come on you greedy people in Westminster... get real and down to earth, live on the pensioners wage for one whole year... without all your bank accounts and extra income from business interests ...then you will understand what you are doing to mankind and how you are killing the goose that layed the golden ......SHAME ON YOU ALL
I live in Spain, for mainly health reasons, but I feel, and I am British by birth. I feel that as I have paid all my dues to the british government since I was 18 years old, I should be entitled to have my say on who is chosen to run my country of birth, as many things, i.e. health and pensions for example, would benefit from my imput.
I am a British Citizen, born in London in 1942 of British parents. I have worked abroad in Africa for more than 20 years, and am now retired in France. I have owned a house in Thanet for 50 years, and have always been subject to UK Council Tax and UK income tax. I have had a National Insurance Number since age 17 and continuously paid NI contributions until my retirement at 65, and now receive the UK state pension.
I understand that if I reside in the UK for more than 6 months within any one year, I then become re-eligible to vote in any UK Local Council and General Elections. Does this mean that as I am then re-entered onto the electoral register, I can vote not only in any UK election during that coming year, but also earn another 15 year block of proxy votes, even though I may not be resident in the UK for the 6 months+ in any of the subsequent years??
I live in France and return to the UK every month to see family. I also feel that it is most unjust that I do not have the right to vote. My daughter who has both French and British nationality has gone to live in Spain, has married a Spaniard and still is able to vote in France.
I first lived in Luxembourg 1973-1981, then Brussels to date. I would make two points.
1. I think that the reducing of the cut-off from 20 to 15 years was the first time ever British citizens had the vote taken away from them.
2. My dual-nationality children born in Belgium exercise certain voting rights in France whereas the UK treat them as aliens in this regard.
Belgium:
We first left the UK with the Diplomatic Service never immagining that this would lead to a loss of voting rights. Its a strange world in which doing something for ones country is rewarded so poorly!
I now live in France but was born in England of english parents (jncidently my father served in the 1914/18 and the 1939/45 wars) . I worked ,more or less continuously for 45 years and paid income tax and national insurance contributions over this period. I'm still paying tax to the U K government on my pension ,which I fully contributed to. I am 78years old and have not used the british national health service for over 10 years although I have had both hips and a my knee implants done , spinal and heart surgery , and radio therapy for prostate cancer , all carried out in France for which I pay a seperate insurance .
Where I live ,the average winter temperatures are lower than w here I used to live near the Hampshire coast, we quite often experience minus10° C , They are now talking about taking away the winter fuel allowance!! I bet Peter Viggers will keep his (when he qualifies) for his Gosport duck houses.
I am 81 years old. I live in South Africa, mainly because I can't afford the ridiculous prices in UK. My UK pension was calculated on the contributions I made, which as far as I know is the same method as for everybody, but I have never had an increase as do those living in UK. I do not get any free medical sevices - not even when I am in the UK on a visit (This was specifically refused by both the local doctor and by the district hospital.) I do not get optical assistance, hearing treatment or any dental treatment - not even a small subsidy towards those expenses, but those living in UK get the whole lot! The Govenment is thus making a huge profit on me compared with other pensioners, but I am unable to complain bcause I do not have a vote. However while my daughter, who is a British citizen, lived in my house in UK for 2 years, both she and her South African fiancee were registered to vote - and both did so. My now son-in-law objected to this registration, but was told by the official that as he was living in UK he MUST register to vote. How stupid can officialdom get?
Incidentally, my wife who qualified for a UK pension in her own right by her own payments, and is also British, is in exactly the same position as me. Recently we have heard about a winter fuel allowance. When was this introduced? And why were we not informed about it? Even if we are excluded from that benefit while outside UK, it might make a difference to our ability to survive if we return to UK on a permanent basis.
I believe that all those who are in the same situation as me and my wife, regardless of where they live in the world, should receive a little justice and fair treatment.
I live in Spain
France. We should be able to vote somewhere!
We live in Spain.
A Britsh citizen living in Spain whom hasn't been able to vote in any General Election in the last 35 years.
WHY ARE EXPATS TREATED AS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS BY THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT?
The British Government need to consider the following and ask themseves why are they treating expats as second class citizens.
Expats play an important role in promoting British culture and British Trade in Spain
Many expats are employed teaching English to children,university students and in International companies where English is needed to do business .Sometimes these companies are British and are located here as labour and other costs are cheaper.
Pensioners support British shops and therefore are supporting British exports.They have decided to spend thier retirement in a warmer climate after working hard all their lives Therefore it is a disgrace that they have their right to vote taken away from them.Furthermore,they still have their savings and family in the UK
The Goverment needs to wake up and support expats.Expats must be given their right to vote either in General Elections in the UK or in their country of residence.It is a disgrace that the Goverrnment can take away the human right to vote.Reforms must be made.
What sort of democracy is it where a Government can arbitrarily disenfranchise some of its citizens? Come on UK Government - it's time you joined the real world!
Spain
I have long supported our right to have the vote in the UK elections and feel scandalized that we are are effectively disenfranchised.
I haven't read as the comments as there are so many, but I wonder whether people have considered what will happen if there is a referendum in the UK, as the Prime Minister has promised, to stay in the EU or to get out? Are we not to have a vote on this either?
This is something that will directly affect us and, for those of us in the EU, would have very serious consequences if the referendum resulted in the UK leaving the EU. We would go back to the days when we had to queue for hours for residence papers, would find it even more difficult to find a job, open a bank account etc etc, and for those of us who have lived abroad for years, it doesn't bear thinking about. And, unless we take out nationality of our host country, we would continue without a vote.
I would like to know where the best places are for me to write to direct. If someone can guide me, I would be happy to do just that.
I live in Italy. I think that taking away our right to vote is a scandal!
I live in Germany.
Our other EEC Friends consider the attitude of the British Government, particularly in relation to Voting, but also in its failure to control the attempts of the BBC/ITV and other Broadcasters who are presently trying to make sure that we can not receive any Sat broadcasts at all. I am quite sure that most of us would pay a reasonable Annual License Fee in order to receive Broadcasts from home. We are rapidly becoming the joke of Europe, completely disowned by our Home Country. Look at the ridiculous statements issued on the subject of the Heating Allowance! It is only recently, here in Spain, that people have been given real help and advice over the mess relating to EHIC Cards, so perhaps they will now address other matters too! Why should British Expats lose more and more rights compared to their EEC Amigos!?
Please read this letter that I received last year when I complained about the WFA.
Website: www.dwp.gov.ukE-mail Ministers at: ministers@dwp.gsi.gov.uk
Ministerial Correspondence Team, Caxton House, Tothill Street, London, SW1H 9NA
Mr and Mrs Patricia Pittaway
john.pitta@yahoo.co.ukOur Ref: TO/12/18028
21 September 2012
Dear Mr and Mrs Pittaway
Thank you for your e-mail of 30 August to the Secretary of State about the Winter Fuel Payment. Government Ministers receive a large volume of correspondence and they are unable to reply personally on every occasion. Therefore, I have been asked to respond.
Winter Fuel Payments were introduced as one initiative in the Government’s commitment to tackle fuel poverty in Great Britain.
To qualify a person has to have reached women’s State Pension age during or before the qualifying week and be ordinarily resident in the UK. By ordinarily resident we mean that the person must normally live here and not just be present for all or part of the qualifying week.
Under European law some benefits paid in one Member State must also be paid to people who live outside that State but within the European Economic Area (EEA).
In the past, to comply with the European law, the Government only used to pay Winter Fuel Payments to former UK residents living elsewhere in the EEA and Switzerland if they qualified for a payment in the UK before moving abroad.
However, following a judgment in the European Court of Justice in 2011, the Government has changed its export rules. It is now possible for people to receive a Winter Fuel Payment in the EEA and Switzerland without having acquired it in this country first as long as they have a genuine and sufficient link with the UK.
With regard to your comment about the ‘temperature test’, Winter Fuel Payments are designed to help pensioners keep warm in the cold British weather, not for those living in hot countries. Ministers intend to bring in a temperature criterion so payments can only be made to British pensioners living in cold climates.
Thank you for your comments about the temperatures in Spain. There are a number of factors that Government will need to consider before this legislation is brought before Parliament. Details of how the scheme will work have not yet been decided.
Yours sincerely
Goff Daft
Head of the Correspondence Team
Seems that the payment of WFA has already been decided by the Government, all of them are a load of PLONKERS!
Having spent almost my entire (44 years)working life in Government Service, much of this overseas, and having finally retired to live in Thailand, I am subject to a frozen pension, loss of treatment under the National Health, no extras such as bus pass, WFA etc etc etc and THE LOSS OF MY VOTE (I have applied for re-registration but did not even receive a reply). I still pay UK tax however! NO TAXATION WITHOUT RTEPRESENTATION!
We have emailed Robert Buckland MP regarding expats voting in the UK together with our rights to the Winter Fuel payments several times, the last time being the 11-10-2012. We just cannot understand how any Country can treat their citizens so badly. Also, my wife has voted on this online petition and now it will not allow me to vote making this petition a ONE vote per household and this also is not right. It's all very sad!!
In 2005 I moved from East Grinstead to the United States. I maintained my electoral registration with Mid Sussex council and last voted in the 2010 General Election by post.It recently emerged that I had been removed from the electoral register. My wife received an annual review letter and I did not get a letter. I asked Mid Sussex what was going on and they told me that they had no record of my being on the register. They later conceded that I was registered until 2009/10 but did not explain why I had been removed.I completed new forms to re-register and submitted them on September 4th.
Mid Sussex has not confirmed that I am now back on the register and has not explained why I was deprived of my right to vote without being notified.
I take this issue very seriously and am determined to get to the bottom of it. I am sure that you would agree that it is simply not acceptable to arbitrarily deprive somebody of the franchise in this way without making any effort to check facts or inform the voter concerned. Any advice or assistance you can give in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
As a Retired Fire Officer who has lived in Spain for over 15 years, having a pension that is taxed in the UK & paying taxes also here in Spain ,its crazy to me that I can no longer vote in the UK & only vote in local elections ( for the Mayor ) here in Spain. I paid taxes all my working life in the UK & all I get from the government is my pension and Medical coverage here in Spain. When I moved out here I had to prove to the local authorities that I had enough funds to support myself, which I did. Now I see all the riff raffs from all over the world descending on the UK. It seems the first thing they say is Social Security & the government fall over them giving them houses, money etc. even though they have never contributed a penny to it. I also bet they will get WFP without question. I would like to see David Cameron live out here over a winter without heat, yes it's not as cold ( below zero ) as in the UK, but with the very high humidity we have here over the winter even though we are above zero with the humidity it feels just as cold as the UK.
I cannot believe the arrogance of the individuals in government who dare to remove the basic rights of any pensioner wherever he/she chooses to live out their remaining years. Like all pensioners I have paid all my dues during my working life, which in turn gives me the right to retain my pension, the right to vote, the right to retain my passport, the right to any allowance enjoyed by all UK based pensioners to the day that I die, wherever I choose to live.
I live m resident of Spain, worked 40 years in the uk paying all my dues, I am amazed that they want to take away my right to vote I am British subject and always will be., I therefore consider I should have the same rights as a uk resident.
I live in cyprus
I pay my tax in the UK. There are many issues that affect my family, my income, national security and our place and image in the world. I have strong political views and I am absolutely furious that I will be disenfranchised. Many years ago I worked with Irish people who, I believe, were entitled to vote in the UK even when they returned to Ireland. We read of the rights of foreign people living in the UK, to benefits and housing, but the British government seems to give a much lower priority to looking after its own citizens, most who have worked and contributed to the benefit of the nation. What I ask is to be achieved by denying us the vote and what costs can possibly be saved? There seems to me no just or earthly reason to deny the many British people living abroad the fundamental right vote. I sincerely hope this campaign succeeds and I thank Harry Shindler for his tenacious efforts.
I moved to Spain in 1990 at the age of 29 and remain a British citizen. I am currently disenfranchised as I am not eligible to vote in the national elections either in my country of origin or in my country of chosen residence. I fully support a demand for change to the current EU legislation which permits member states to make their own rules and has allowed both the UK and Spain to bar me (and thousands like me) from voting in the national elections of any country. The situation is anachronistic and prejudicial to the many EU citizens who have exercised their right to live where they want.
Although it is not my personal situation, I also support the right to vote in the UK by expatriates who remain UK citizens but have chosen to live outside the UK for prolonged periods of time.
I have posted many comments on these issues and am very surprised at lack of reply comments . ALL EXPATS ( Under 15yr) AND EXILES ( over 15yr ) APPLY TO VOTE - at ones last UK Electoral Registration office , that way any input from Electoral Com. in Westminster debates will be factual not hearsay / internet blogs and the like ie number of overseas voters / refusals . If refused like me ; UN and ECHR have protocol / definition of CITIZEN AND RIGHT TO REPRESENTATION = LOSS OF RIGHT TO REPRESENTATION IS A LOSS OF IDENTITY . This will have to be addressed by ECHR in Harry Shindler appeal soon as it is at odds with its previous rulings / définitions . My previous blog what is the diference between a Government that DECIDES to send troops against its CITIZENS ( numbers unknown )and a Government that DEBATES AND DECIDES to DISENFRANCHISE ( 5.5 M ?,) CITIZENS , fundermentaly / simplistically . I do not comprehend the diference
I have now lived in Vietnam with my Vietnamese wife for two years, I am dismayed that I am unable to even register to vote since the requirement to have my signature verified by another British passport holding expat in Vietnam. The British Embassy/Consulate does not provide the service and who are of no help where passports are concerned and flatly refuse to answer queries with regard to renewal.
I have recently retired to Cyprus having spent all my working life pay my taxes and national insurance to the UK Goverment. This included 32 years in Her Majesty's Armed Forces serving Queen and country. I am proud to be British and will always be British, where ever I live, so why should I lose the right to vote in the country I have been proud to serve for most of my life.
Currently resident in France for past 7 years previously registered in Essex.
Pensioner living in Australia. Twenty five years in British Armed Forces, 15 years working for the British Government abroad. State Pension frozen in 2007 and now to lose voting rights. What a load of insensitive pay grabbing individuals our Government and Opposition party are. It is no wonder they want to stop all ex-pat and pensioners voting rights. They disgust me.
Moved to France from the UK in January after retirement, and have registered as an "overseas voter" in the constituency where I formerly lived. I follow UK current affairs and wish to continue to be able to vote, for MORE than the next 15 years I hope! I would support introduction of an on-line voting system to avoid postal delays which could make my vote invalid.
Living in France with my French wife. She lived in UK for about 20 years and could vote in UK elections.
I have been away from UK for about 20 years so have lost the right to vote.
Can anyone justify this? What is the UK government's argument in favour of disenfranchising me?
I will do this short and sweet - I have been living in Spain for 25 years, my husband is Spanish, I can vote in the local elections and europeans , however I am a 'persona no grata' why because I pay my taxes here in Spain but have no vote on all elections. The local Morro orChino, somehow has that right not forgetting they are taking work from Spanish. As I have been here for half my life I just want my vote back which was mine from the day I was born until I die, Emily Pankhurst would be turning in her grave, the in justice which has been given to me
I live in France, where I have lived now for 11 years. I object very strongly to the attitude of the British government and British institutions which seem to think that those of us who live across the Channel are no longer part of their responsibility and whose democratic rights are no longer of interest to them. This is in contrast to French and Italian governments who treat their ex-patriates as if they are fully part of their nations and treat them accordingly. For all I know Britain is alone in Europe in this regard.
I do not understand DAVID GRAVES-MOORE ( 4 days ago ) re EU / Maastrikt Treaty etc . By his declaration paying UK tax and UKcontributions for the last 5.5 years living in Cyprus he is openly declaring he is NOT A RESIDENT IN CYPRUS . To be a resident in another country you are normally obliged to register in the country of residence ( most countries have adopted that factor in thier tax / residence laws ) and pay your taxes ( ON YOUR GLOBAL FINANCES ) in that country . There are exceptions of course - globally accepted Under double tax treaties eg ; income from a fixed asset/ property , ex government employee pensions tax being payable in the respective country ONLY . Old age pensions - state / private are taxable ONLY IN THE COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE - NO TAX NO RESIDENCE SIMPLE . Having been "exiled" for the last 20+ years on mainland Europe there seems to be a big % of Brits who think they can elect ( in some case exclude ) where they pay taxes - Those of you who follow this line will find out that If you own a property in "your country of residence " you will pay not only Capital Gains tax but ( with Europe integrating its tax systems including UK ) more than likely have to pay by way of witholding from sale gains ( at least in France ) your taxes that should have been payed this could take years !!! .