Should police have access to ISP customer data without a warrant?

  • Clive Garlow - 10 years ago

    P.S. In my previous post, I used this sentence in reference to Harper; "You are orchestrating not only your own demise but the demise of your entire party."

    I meant to say; "POLITICAL demise." I thought, just in case the original sentence was interpreted by this paranoid government as a personal and physical threat, I had better clarify my meaning. After all, I don't want The R.C.M.P. or any other federal authority kicking in my front door as the record shows police are lacking judgement in what constitutes a real threat and what doesn't. I could wind up dead or seriously injured judging by their recent past performance(s).

  • Clive Garlow - 10 years ago

    Thousands of commenters over these many many threads concerning this bill, have made their postion crystal clear! Not only that, many have clearly posted excellent examples of why this bill should die on the floor right NOW! Harper beware! You are orchestrating not only your own demise but the demise of your entire party. Example? Look no further than the present state of the (almost) extinct liberal party. I hope you ignore this advice as I and thousands upon thousands of others have had enough of your arrogance.

  • Habeus 1215 - 10 years ago

    In an age where scarcely a month goes by without a new incident of police running over pedestrians with squad car, breaking down the door an assaulting innocent occupants at the wrong address, or maliciously escalating lethal violence against mentally challenged suspects - do we really need another way for police to fuck up?

    C-30 should be withdrawn and Vic Toews' cabinet position revoked. There is no room in my Canada for such a vacuous and narrow minded person being cabinet minister of record in any sovereign government of this land. We have little to offer the world in terms of civilization and yet we squander our moral high ground and greatest asset by suffering such a fool.


  • Roy Cobden - 10 years ago

    "And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that." - Lord Acton.

    Our policing agencies have demonstrated again and again that they need MORE IMPARTIAL OVERSIGHT, not less.

    Giving the fox unsupervised access to the hen-house is absurd.

  • Deny Chartre - 10 years ago

    HELL NO! it shouldnt be up to them.. If there is suspicion well thats what a judge is for, to sign warrants! it shouldnt be up to the law enforcements discretion!

  • G. MacLeod - 10 years ago

    Yes. I am all for taking child pornographers and other criminals off ourstreets. I do not feel there will be any controls in place to monitor the people that can access information. There should be criminal charges for accessing information other then whats stated in the BILL.

  • CJ Julian - 10 years ago

    .... also, if the Harper government wishes to have a continued majority government, they will not let this pass.

  • CJ Julian - 10 years ago

    I was under the impression that our government (along with all other western governments) reviled the Eastern Bloc countries for doing the exact same thing. This is a blatant invasion of privacy.

    This was spawned by the "occupy" movement. The new law would give the corrupt organization (RCMP) authority to eavesdrop on anyone who pisses them off. It would be the "I'll get that bastard" attitude. (can we say 1984??). Big Brother is watching you !!

    The 'excuse' that they're using it to catch pedophiles and terrorists is bullshit. Complete and utter BULLSHIT. They have had means to catch these criminals previously, so why do they think that invading EVERYONE'S privacy is going to help them catch any more.

    This so totally contravenes our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The rest of the world is watching to see what we do, and they ARE talking about it.

    Take a hint from Betty Ford: "Just say NO"

  • Tim H - 10 years ago

    "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear." This line has been used throughout history when a government wants to take away fundamental freedoms in the name of "law and order." Not in my country, Mr.Toews. This is _not_ Nazi Germany (or China, or Iran, or ...)

  • ElPerro36 - 10 years ago

    These "Harper Hacks" - and the spineless group of sheep who mindlessly follow them in their
    "Power-Monger Performances" should cease and desist with their high-handed dictator methods. This government has become a group of control freaks, who do not know the
    meaning of the word "democracy". The general public has had enough of this crap.
    Law-abiding citizens do not deserve to be threatened by any minister of the Crown, with such a dastardly statement that "if we do not agree with him - we are promoting child pornography". There is no room in "our Canada" for people of this ilk!!

  • Gerry MacDonald - 10 years ago

    Harper and Toews are determined to set up a Cyber Police State (similar to Nazi Germany without the Cyber) and although everyone in their right mind is in full support of going after the bad guys...this tactic is an obvious abuse of their power, and it scares the hell out of me and whats in store for the next generation(s)...

  • Dan A. - 10 years ago

    If you are so eager to live the "American Dream" Mr.Toews why don't you move there and
    leave the rest of us to deal with the criminals, and by the way, I surely did not appreciate to be herded in the same paddock as the "Child Pornographer" and apparently according to this poll so do 90% of respondent.

  • Jeremy - 10 years ago

    Minister Toews is the one guilty of ratcheting up the rhetoric on this bill. This is going way too far, infringes on our basic right to privacy, and you know the old saying, "Give an inch, Take a Mile", well how long will it be before some overzealous prosecution goes to far and tries to justify their actions with this bill. I am "NOT" a criminal, and nor should I have to worry about who's watching me behind my back. This is scary.

  • Stan Hart - 10 years ago

    What are warrants just not cool any more? Is probable cause to old fashion for the 21st century? Or is Law Enforcement just turning into a bunch of lazy asses? But then that's not really what this Bill is all about, is it? I will not live in a surveillance police state. I have learned how to hide my online activities if I should so choose. It's very easy to do. You should too, as I'm sure all these criminals who they are supposedly after have all ready done long ago. I'm trying my hardest to learn Icelandic, since my obviously stupid or brainwashed or whatever fellow country-men voted Mr. Harper back into office last election. If you do it again after this next long five years is up, you deserve everything you get....

  • John - 10 years ago

    First of all I do NOT give consent to use, check up or keep my e mail address on file in any way shape or form!

    We the people should be able to have full access to any and all government employees information correspondence, home address and personal information.
    As public employees are in actual fact servants and need to be monitored to make sure they are doing there job as originally agreed to many years ago.

  • David - 10 years ago

    SOme people are obliviouse, like Maggie, this is an open door to everything ...
    there will be no boundaries..

    I wouldnt be surprised if one of the bigger internet providers fund an appeal if it is passed.

  • Another Joe - 10 years ago

    So... What would stop a tech savvy pedophile to pick up a used laptop with wireless... install a unix OS, install some MAC spoofing software, drive around the neighborhood, hack wireless access points, and download what they want?

  • Jeff Lam - 10 years ago

    The "stop piracy" excuse wasn't enough to make citizens hand over their rights and freedoms, so now they're pulling the "stop child porn" excuse. You know how they could stop crime? By giving police the right to execute suspected criminals without trial.

    It's called a disproportionate response. Signing away the rights of every citizen is never the way to go for anything.

  • Dave Briscoe - 10 years ago

    Well it looks like Cogeco will have one less customer if the lawful access bill does pass! Not that I have anything to hide but this invasion of privacy reminds me of Nazi Germany, George Orwell's 1984 Orwellian state and Stalin's secret police tactics. Is Vic Toews a reincarnation of Edgar Hoover? Internet access is not as important to me as my privacy as a Canadian.

  • Alex - 10 years ago

    @Barry Asgeirson
    You say you have nothing to hide, so why don't you remove the blinds and curtains from the windows of your house then? Hey, you have nothing to hide so go ahead. This is not about hiding anything, this is about reasonable expectation of privacy. Do you really think that out of tens of thousands cops in this country, one won't reach for this "privilege" in case he has a problem with a neighbor or ex wife or whatever personal motivation they may have. Police already have tools to catch dangerous sex offenders, this is just a back door for them to go snoop around everyone's garbage (virtual or otherwise), and we all have it.

  • Dianne Parsons - 10 years ago

    People in other countries are fighting and losing their lives to achieve what we, as Canadian's had before this present Conservative Government came into power. Now our democracy and freedom's are slowly being dissolved one at a time. This time it is by using a pathetic excuse to invade law-biding citizen's privacy, when they already have enough resources to deal with child pornography. Do they think we are stupid?? It is also an insult to our intelligence to think that we can't see through their veil of creating a police state, slowly but surely. I hope those who once voted for the Conservatives will seriously consider the consequences of their vote, affecting present day and future freedom's. Is this what we want to do to our children and grand-children........set them up to a future of dictatorship?? There is a better way to focus on child pornographers.

  • x - 10 years ago

    Toews is obviously a child pornographer and suffers from psychological projection which is why he is accusing all sane Canadians of being child pornographers. Somebody please get him some help before he hurts himself, his family or others.

  • Pat Harris - 10 years ago

    Why does this crazy stuff keep coming up. We didn't vote for this. This was not a part of the parties agenda going into the election now this stuff keeps coming up.

    Does the opinion of the public have any say in the process or are they just ramming it through.

    I think if this was part of the election platform the end result would be MUCH different.

  • C. Settee - 10 years ago

    This looks pretty scarey folks. But they'll have to snuff me in order to shut me up at THIS point. I wrote an open letter to a newspaper a few years back concerning my Victims compensation benefits being garnished by child maintenence and how my call for help was poo-poo'd by the then minister of "justice" (the "minister of family values" i called him in the letter). I had been beaten into a month long coma on my way to work one morning & was unable to pay my child support for that month. (They printed the letter btw). But when I tried to renew my driver's licence, was told that they had found FINES dating back to '93. I never had fines that were delinquent. But I found it worth every penny they said I owed just to make that aging lothario uncomfortable. AND his cronies. I'd just suggest being very afraid if this bill passes. And btw Vic...hit me with your best shot. I voted Communist ever since.

  • Barry Asgeirson - 10 years ago

    Anything that can be done to aid police to find these child predators and human traffickers far outweighs my expectation of privacy. I have no problem with any police agency "snooping" on me. I have no reason to fear.

  • A. Burns - 10 years ago

    I have supported the reform and conservatives for years. Mr. Harper however is a manifestation of everything that a government should not be. No longer will I sit by and watch as his systematically dismantles everything that makes this country great and different from that of our southern neighbours. I'm no longer interested in what the conservatives are peddling and hope others will realize it is time to stand up against this 'wrong-headed' approach to government.

    Please get involved. Write letters, join a political party. stand up and say 'no'. We owe it to our kids and those who built this great nation!

  • larry - 10 years ago

    Here someone who supports the torture of inocent people. Hacking in peoples private domains, will surely turn up all that unreported crime. Water boarding of 14 yr olds to confess were thay got that dime bag from will take far to long.

  • David - 10 years ago

    Anyone who supports surveillance without a warrant simply does not understand the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship. Sadly, in Canada we are never educated about these basic distinctions in school. Our current education system on 'civics' is a joke. Luckily, most Canadians do understand the distinction between a democracy and a dictatorship where no warrants before surveillance is unacceptable in a democracy. I wonder how Toews would react if some dictator said arbitrarily that anyone with a mustache was a threat to national security and subject to house arrest. The warrant does not hinder the police from doing their job. The warrant just requires the police to demonstrate reasonable cause before putting someone or some website under surveillance. The warrant can even be of limited scope to protect privacy but at the same time enable the police to do their job. Even some terrorist who is suspected of having a nuclear weapon can be easily put under surveillance with a warrant. The irony is not that the warrant hinders the police but that the police botching the investigation or evidence collected from the surveillance (e.g. Air India bombing).

  • Alex Murdoch - 10 years ago

    I figured it wouldn't be long before Toews stuck his foot in his mouth on this Act, and I was right.
    To equate criticism of this horribly conceived Act with support of Child Pornography is unforgivable and should require a public apology.
    In the case of Dennis Markuze/David Mabus, the information was supplied to Police by the blogging community and those who had received death threats, and they were unwilling to proceed with action against him. Why in the world would we want to give more power to the forces that don't even use the resources they do have? Seems to be laziness to me.

  • Dan Longworth - 10 years ago

    The numbers above speak for themselves; the majority of Canadians want to safeguard our Rights and Freedoms, and to live our private lives without undue government intervention. The frightening thing about living under the current regime is that, more often than not, the voices of Canadians are ignored and intrusive, anti-Canadian laws are railroaded through Parliament. Our foolish, self-serving leaders have been ignoring for far too long the fact that Canadians are their employers. Are we willing to have our mail intercepted by police? Or our homes subjected to random, unwarranted "inspections"? Are the 10% who voted "Yes" above willing to be treated like common criminals for their own "safety"? I sure as hell am not. I am a law-abiding, freedom-loving Canadian. I was born here. I have never had to be a refugee in a strange land to allow myself basic human dignity. I hope I never do.

  • Mike Dockman - 10 years ago

    Of course giving police this authority goes too far - cops are humans. The old "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" line assumes that these humans won't misuse this essentially unlimited power to enter our lives. If you somehow ignore what people with unlimited power do to their own citizens in many other parts of the world, consider the nearly unending list of wrongs that our own police have done to our fellow Canadians. My heart goes out to Canada's police - they have an incredibly difficult duty to perform, but they would need to be better people than the rest of us to have this much power and still do their job well. They aren't ... they are normal people; most have good intentions, and some do not. When I was a child, my mother believed in corporal punishment - add 20 years to that story, and her exemplary career in public service would have been destroyed using this law by any person connected to government with any nefarious agenda. The fact that she changed as society changed, and no longer feels that way would not save her. Pass this law, and free speech in Canada is history. What thinking Canadian would dare say how he or she really feels on a big issue with unlimited personal consequences at stake at any time in his future? If this law gets passed, it wouldn't even be wise for me to write this comment.

  • Maggie - 10 years ago

    As long as it stops at secure websites, i.e. banking, government services and the likes. I have nothing to hide and the websites I enter into are strictly for researching a vacation, warranties on products, my banking, electronic bills, etc. I absolutely believe that my banking is strictly private for my eyes only.

  • Hugh - 10 years ago

    With noteable exceptions Canada has been a country in which debate was encouraged. The current federal government repeatedly demonizes anyone who disagrees with it. Giving this government additional powers to invade my privacy, even in the service of the greater good, stopping child abusers, is more than we should permit. When the government shows it deserves my trust I would be more willing to ask, "And how much trust do you ask?" We get the government we deserve and we enjoy the degree of freedom we are prepared to deffend. All of us "radicals" know how it feels to be victimized by the state. I resent being likened with the "scumof the earth" because I demand my freeedom.

  • Frank Ferguson - 10 years ago

    What other kinds of data will the police be able to request? One would presume any kind: those who question our involvement in the Middle East; or sympathise with the 99 percenters; or question the Holocaust; or vote Liberal; or {shudder} root for the Maple Leafs. And how much of this data mining will be at the request of another government? 1984 arrived late, folks!

  • Chris Weisdorf - 10 years ago

    Under section eight of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms it states:

    "8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."

    I don't know how it could be stated any simpler, and in one of the highest laws of the land, no less. Can anyone here- including the Federal Government- honestly say that obtaining private, electronic information without a warrant constitutes a reasonable search? Is this really any different from intercepting and opening your mail at the government's whim? Or listening in to your phone conversations?

    And isn't this the kind of stuff that Iran, Syria and other authoritarian governments, with a history of severely oppressing their people, are doing at this very moment??

    Canada is not a police state, but such provisions will ensure that this country becomes one.

    It is extremely disappointing to see a party which supposedly champions freedom and small government support precisely the opposite, as this would lead to an unprecedented expansion of tyrannical government power into our homes.

    p.s. and for the record, I'm not a child molester

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