Odd the way the poll was worded. All though the FBI may have this one right, they are not the final word. There Jobs are not the same as many police officers or citizens that carry. Accuracy is important for any type of weapon but the type of round is important and the same round does not prove out in every situation. I.e. A JHP is not as good in buildings as perhaps a ball. The Glock however is a very reliable handgun so I would give credit to the average citizen and police officer. If the military or FBI were so credible, they would have switch to the Glock 9mm many years ago.
James Robertson you are not with any police department y....ou can't even spell correctly and use proper English.... nice story though
The qualifiers make this poll irrelevant. Adding "bigger is better" to the second option most likely discouraged voting for it.
Shot placement is the main concern...period! Practice Practice, Practice.
I saw the Miami FBI shootout mentioned above. First off, anyone that puts that much trust in their ammo selection as the “ultimate man stopper” has to realize, it is only one part of the equation and could be in for a nasty surprise. If I had to abide by the rules of war, sure, I would choose .45 ball. But being a civilian now, with the advancements of bullet tech…9mm polymer tipped hollow point +P for no other reason than I can drive a 9mm faster and more accurately (especially under stress) than I can a .45…having more rounds available in the mag is an added bonus.
I know, I know I am going to get someone saying “Well, if you learn to shoot accurately blahdy blah”…to that I say, how much marksmanship drops under true combat stress. The US army did evaluations back in the early 90s if memory serves me right…top trained guys with combat experience had a decrease of somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-40% with simulated stress (I.E. excessive physical strain and time constraint/sleep deprivation)…you take a somewhat trained civilian with average range practice under true combat stress…if you’re lucky and stay cool headed enough to get a good shot off or two ( and follow up is important), if not…buddy you are going to need all the bullets you can. Which brings me back to the FBI Miami shooting.
The one thing the FBI does not talk about is…how many shots fired vs how many shots hit their mark? The other big issue is they brought pistols to a rifle fight. The guy with the mini 14 did take a lethal hit from a 9mm…it took him awhile to die, in fact he did a lot of shooting and killing after being hit. I know bullet tech has come a long way since then…So, would .45 or .40 have done a better job???…that’s a tough call. Was it the round or the lack of accuracy? Plenty stories out there of folks being tagged by .45, even .357s and kept fighting. There are a lot of people in the ground from .45s,.40s,9mms…heck .38s…did they care what they were shot with? Nope. When you are talking about .45 vs 9mm or (.35) we ‘re talking a 10th of an inch difference and roughly half and ounce vs a 3rd of an once in lead and copper….I think it’s safe to say…accuracy trumps all. You shoot, what you can shoot well under real stress. And just for the record…I have seen first-hand, the 9mm NATO ball round is no slouch in the field.
While law enforcement agencies and the military have real world experience in gunfights, the gunfighters are not the ones making the purchase decisions. Weapon selections are made by accountants and politicians.
The move to 9mm from .45acp was a political decision that was made to bring the US in line with NATO. 9mm ammo is also cheaper to make. The decision was not based on any belief that the 9mm was equal to or better than .45acp.
The argument that some special, more expensive, P+ ammo can get you the performance of .45 is an argument akin to saying that a lower paying job is as good as a high paying job if you work a lot of overtime. No thanks. I'll work one high paying job and enjoy my free time rather than drown in overtime for the same life style. Why get a 9mm and have to find special ammo and pay extra for it when most .45acp ammo will do the same or better job?
The job of the bullet is to destroy the target.
It doesn't matter what round is used. I'll take shot placement over stopping power any day of the week.
Anyone who is in a tactical situation and thinks the bullet is going to do the job for them. They could be in for a nasty surprise.
The caliber of a weapon is a tool the same as the weaponl. Any tool used incorrectly can have unforeseen consequences.
Larry Flynt was shot with a .44 magnum. He didn't die but he wasn't out tap dancing the next day either.
What? You mean that they have already forgotten what happened in Miami Dade years ago when the bad guys downed the agents with superior firepower. How often do we see a new generation in our institutions think they know more than those who paved the way for them with their experiences and lives.
This is the same FBI that said that 9mm wasn't enough and switched to the 10mm, which they then said was too much, leading to adoption of the "10mm Lite" (i.e., .40 S&W), which was supposed to be "just right." But now it's not, and 9mm is again the new perfect cartridge - this week. Caveat emptor.
The 9mm is being chosen for reasons other than it's effectiveness-------reasons like price, the political correctness of not turning anyone down for duty even if they cannot physically hack it and the nefarious desire to nationalize all police agencies. Please don't be duped by this or the myriad of articles out there telling us the 9mm is better than the .40 or .45. It's adequate but not better.
No ball ammo. A lot of good 9mm ammo any one can buy. 90% better acuracy less recoil. Common sence . I pack a glock 19
I were a Police Officer with Southern Pines Police Department., NC. A man had several warrants and violations on him. Day and Night we hunted this man, and could not fine him, and off-duty police officer were getting his haircut in the community and saw the suspect exit his home, he had the Barbershop to contact the Police Department, by the time the back-up officers arrived, the off-duty officer were wrestling with the suspect, the on-duty officer drew there weapons 9MM's after spotting a old Military 45 automatic revolver, protruding out of the back of his pants center mass, the off-duty officer had the suspect in a bear hug and did not see the weapon, the on-duty officers ask the suspects to drop his weapon, the suspect reach and fire the 45 revolver through the back of his pant, striking the off-duty officer in his stomach and thigh, the officers ask again that the suspect drop his weapon, he would not. Two officer with I believe Smith & Wesson 9MM, fired (12) rounds into this man and he would not die, it took one final head shot before he dropped his weapon and died. Since that time on the Police Department, re-issued a new weapon the Glock 45 Automatic, with black talon rounds, this gun proved more reliable, with one shot one kill, anywhere that round hits you, you will probably bleed-out before get to the hospital. We found at the time that, its almost inhumane, to fire that many shots, with none of the rounds of any effect. This Shooting took place in the early 1990's.