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Lauren: One might ask the same question of you. My facts come from 4 years of first hand, hands on experience. It's pretty clear where your "facts" are coming from. There is nothing wrong with us. We DO think horses belong in the city, horses belong where ever the people who love, understand, and are knowledgeable about working with and handling them are. In NYC their safety record is beyond compare with the best of regulations in place to insure their well being, and yes, we are happy about that. Our facts are straight and it's you and your ilk that need to "get a clue".
what is wrong with you people..... do you think horses belong in a city....? They are mistreated and abused and you selfish ignorant people think this is okay. How dare all of you. Your vote to keep them is helping horses to be abused and die miserable so i hope your'e all happy about that. Get your facts straight and get a clue.
So famousnylover is throwing up animal rights propaganda videos, having to go back decades, or put videos from other cities to find enough images to put out what seems to be a credible case against the NY carriages. Grasping for straws. No activity, no matter how benign, it completely immune to accidents or injuries. But the carriage horses are among the safest equine pursuit in existence, and the safest outdoor activity in the city. Even taking a walk in Central Park is more dangerous! More people have been killed by falling tree limbs there in the last few years than have ever been killed in carriage accidents. Ban the trees!
As a horse owner for over 50 years, I applaud that people want what's best for the horses. However, it would seem that many have no idea what is best for horses, in particular NY Class, PETA, HSUS, and it would appear, people posting comments here. Fewer than 1% of us in the US own horses, and yes, we're a minority and have rights, and it stands to reason that most of the other 99% have no idea what would be good or bad for horses, obviously including Mayor de Blasio. But then, he doesn't really care about the horses anyway, does he, just catering to his campaign contributors who want to develop the land the stables now occupy.
What is best for these horses is to just let them keep on doing what they are doing. They are loved, well cared for, and content. The only cruelty towards these horses I have observed is the anti-carriage crowd harassing them with their placards and screams, trying their best to upset the horses and cause an accident. And, because they are well cared for and loved by their owners, the horses have enough confidence in their drivers to cope with these rude protestors.
NYC Carriage Horse driver leaving SCENE OF ACCIDENT- It's illegal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSKIeMpnrA4
http://youtu.be/a3_YrCclQDU
Banning cars for keeping carriage horses wouldn't work because if cars are bans, so will be no buses or trucks. How will people get around?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S5jAccuLso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05c2yR7NU9M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rka9TKuQqo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UonUAgBfbnc
Equine Advocates Farm has rescued Bobby from slaughterhouse and he's having happy life in farm.
http://www.equineadvocates.org/issueDetail.php?recordID=6
famousnylover says "motorists are very road rage" which is why the horses are not safe. Well, statistically, the horse carriages are the SAFEST form of transportation in the city. Safer than private cars, and far, far safer than taxis. Even safer than bicycles, since two innocent bystanders have been killed by bicycles since last summer. If safety is the main concern, perhaps NYC should ban cars, taxis and bicycles and keep the carriages.
Some people say keeping horse carriages in Central Park, but it means you have to built every single stables in park, which will take away lovely public space from Central Park.
Current stables are located on dangerous Lincoln Tunnel and West Side Highway traffic.
Motorists are very road rage and they do not have respect for any slow moving vehicles including carrages, and that's why IT"S UNSAFE FOR HORSES.
If Carriage Horses are banned, ALL CARRIAGE HORSES WILL BE RESCUE INTO FARM SANCTUALLY, NOT SLAUGHTER HOUSE.
Carriage drivers don't respect safety because they make dangerous illegal U-turn, run red light, cut in front of moving traffic, even with tourists onboard.
If you type in YouTube, carriage horses accident, lots of videos comes out. Both tourists, and horses has been seriously injured.
Monica your animal rights mindset is glowing right through the fog of reason. I know your type. You hate people. You think animals are better off dead that living/working/interacting with people. You believe ALL dog breeders are "puppy mills" and ALL carriage owners and drivers are "horse exploiters" Well thankfully your world view is rare. Most people can totally understand engaging in an activity you love for little to no profit or even losing money. Ask anybody in ANY horse activity, and then expand that to dog breeders, pet owners, MANY farmers, ranchers, and even golfers, bowlers, race car owners, and the list goes on. Just because a activity involves an animal does not make the participation in it solely a profit venture and nor does it mean if profit is involved that makes it right to demonize it. https://www.facebook.com/groups/carriagehorselove/ Get a grip will ya?
Monica: There is no justification to compare how the horses, who have appropriate care given, to a puppy mill. That is a red herring on your part.
Every animal rights activist thinks that horses have the same response to a situation that they would. You didn't disappoint. You fear driving in NYC because you are able to imagine possible accidents.
Horses don't have that fear because they live in the moment, not in their imagination. Statistics have proven that horse &vehicle accidents are extremely rare in NYC. Therefore since the horses aren't afraid of traffic, and accidents are rare, there is no valid cause to ban this method of travel. A carriage driver has a higher vantage point in traffic than a pedestrian has. Another false dichotomy.
Horses in the city live in the same manner as some horses in the country. Expecting humans in the city to live like a horse proves nothing other than your silly anthropomorphism is at work again.
to hrslady: your comment is comical. No profit and it's about how much you love horses. That is the same thing puppy mill owners say!
The bottom line is that these horses do not belong in the streets of New York City. I personally have a hard time driving there when I visit especially have to watch for over aggressive cab drivers, and cannot imagine an animal trying to maneuver around that chaos.
I challenge anyone, especially you horse carriage owners, to walk among the traffic, and while you are at it, live theife you give these horses..... lets see how long you can take it - the claim that the horses are "living the life" is simply ridiculous.
To the runner in cp......there is nothing tax free when you own a horse or have a business involving horses. Obviously you are not and have never been a horse owner or you would b aware of that. I think you are confusing the owners of the very loved and we'll taken care of Carriage horses with the person/persons involved in the real estate wants the land and the building so he can get his tax free exemptions.. maybe you should doing your homework and educate yourself w an open mind and eyes and start with taking a tour of the stables. Then maybe talk with the experts such as the vets and farriers and then INDEPENDENT EXPERTS. I think you will b shocked and very enlightened by the true facts and not the lies that certain groups like to spread and manipulate to their benefit
https://www.facebook.com/groups/carriagehorselove/
Tax free you say? Hum...funny that I have been sitting here for two days doing my taxes for my horse and carriage business. Like usual the cost of feed, farrier, vet, hay, and other expenses to treat my horses like the royalty they are has once again left me without a profit. Not that I am complaining or the only one mind you, almost everyone in this business has the same problem. Its a high output very low return industry. One one has no other motive to engage in except for the sheer love of the horse and the sharing of them with others.
The carriage industry troll has a FINANCIAL interest. its TAX FREE Millions enterprise that exploits HORSES and cheap labor. You are right, if the city council had a moral backbone, this abuse would end today.
Kris: I have 39 yrs experience with horses. How much do you have? You have to stop anthropomorphizing. What makes you happy is not what makes them "happy". "Free" horses live outside in all weather, and roam around looking for something to eat or drink. The carriage horses get their exercise walking in the park and don't have to search for food or shelter. "Free" horses also don't get their bodies groomed, their injuries treated or carrots from animal lovers. The NYC horses are doing quite well as they are. Leave them alone.
Carole Hughes: You are the one who is uninformed. The carriage supporters have read the bill. They don't like it, and neither does the union representing the taxi drivers. Driving a horse is not like driving a taxi, and the horse sanctuaries you speak of don't have space or funding to take in healthy carriage horses. The horses would be resold if the drivers lose their jobs, and then they could end up in a worse circumstance. Only NYC regs keep them safe. There is no place in the world where accidents don't happen. Sending horses out of the city does not guarantee them safety.
Julian: i bet there are a lot of homeless people who would like to have the housing, food and medical care that the horses get. A stall isn't prison, it's home to a horse.
I would definitely love to see the antique looking cars come out in place of these horses. Seeing the horses out there in all weather conditions tethered to a wagon with no time to roam free or play is heart breaking. We as a society have to move past our own greed & think about the well being of these sentient beings. They deserve to be happy too and trotting through stinky loud traffic all day isn't cool. It's time to move on.
The way we treat animals is the way we will treat each other. Stop imprisoning animals and we can free ourselves.
Unfortunately alot of these comments are from uninformed people. Read the bill. It provides jobs for drivers and stable workers and also green cab madallions and the horses well have homes and sanctuaries to take them. Horses do not belong in conjested NYC and it is unsafe for people and horses.
This article demonstrates ignorance of horses, very simply. Horses are not "forced to work." If a horse were doing what he would naturally do, in the wild, he would walk or run 20 miles a day, just because that's about how far they wander blade of grass to blade of grass. Walking around the park a few times is probably UNDER working him for optimum health, not over working. The horses are pulling a very well balanced carriage. The carriage is so light and well balanced that it is moved into place by a single human each day and put away by a single human each day. That is by hand, pushing and or pulling it. The carriages are so light to pull that I've seen one 200 pound person pull one around without help. That was fully loaded with people! These horses are happy. The majority are draft horses. It's called a "cold" breed because they are so docile and quiet. They are bred over centuries for their quiet nature. This gives them a sort of lazy appearance. If you think all horses should look like a hot Arabian or Thoroughbred, then this quiet drafty is going to look nearly under the weather. But a happy draft horse really just looks like Eeyore. Lazy ears and a relaxed eye. If you want to educate yourself about facial expressions of horses, go here: http://www.horsesandpeople.com.au/article/development-facial-expression-pain-scale#.VNwaS_nF8vE
The NYC carriage horses have better jobs than many NYC people. They are very well regulated, cannot work when it is too hot or too cold, can only work a set number of hours per day and have 5 weeks vacation outside of the city each year. Most of the horses enjoy the attention of tourists.
The author of this piece is terribly anthropomorphic. I understand that you don't care about the people whose lives depend on these horses. And, I'm also interested in protecting the horses, but my 39 yrs of ownership experience tells me that that is best done by keeping them where they are - protected by more regulations than any other horse in the country! The argument that NYC isn't safe is specious. Life isn't safe anywhere. We can't wrap our horses or ourselves in bubble wrap.
I'll never understand why people who admittedly know nothing about the reality of horses lives, feel qualified to offer opinions on how they are best cared for. I've even seen activists argue that veterinarians aren't as qualified as they are.
Please stop "helping" the horses. With friends like you, they don't need enemies.
That carriage horse nosing the ground is obviously well cared for. Nothing sad about its' demeanor or attitude, from my POV as a graduate degreed in Animal Science and as a Director for a 501c3 spca. Why is it animal rights extremists are so dead set on destroying all human contact with animals - especially in places where people are increasingly isolated even from each other (say, big cities such as New York)? Interacting with well loved and cared-for horses such as these animals increases our empathy for others, for the non-human creatures that populate our world. How else are city kids and adults going to have such close contact with equines? Where else will they get to see the human-animal working bond that has allowed civilization to even exist? Creativity to grow and flourish?
I have dogs and a cat. I've raised rabbits. I haven't ridden a horse since I was in my 30s, decades back. Carriage horses helps NYC stay human. Keep 'em.
Whose word do we trust ... hired radical animal rights activists with a misguided belief that no animal should work side-by-side with their human companions OR dozens of equine experts, including some of the most respected veterinarians in the country, who confirm that the carriage horses are healthy, content, and respected and loved by the horse carriage community, in one of the most closely monitored businesses in NYC?
Who wrote this article, an 7th grader? Every word is nonsense. Do some research next time.
Ditch 'em? Seriously? You want to throw 300 families out of work and send 220 beautiful horses to slaughter because YOUR ignorance of horses makes you think they look "sad"? Quit anthropomorphic arguments when you obviously know NOTHING about horses...head down means "relaxed", not sad!
Ignore the clueless haters and #CARRIAGEON!
Don't own horses, or work with horses. Don't really know anything about horses, but will sure as shootin' tell you whatever you're doing with a horse is wrong! Folks like this author are the backseat drivers of the animal owning world. You show a healthy, clean, well shod, well groomed horse nosing around for what looks to be some spilled grain (i.e. she's just been fed) and think it's an example of what's wrong with the carriages? Please learn what real horse abuse and neglect look like before you pass judgement.
Horses need to work...If you keep taking away their jobs, there will be no more horses...These horses are well cared for and their living conditions inspected regularly and working conditions monitored.. Did it ever occur to you it might be the valuable real estate where the stables are located that is driving this campaign..There are too many horses out there already being sold to kill buyers to risk adding more..not enough rescues or sanctuaries..
i find it interesting that you want the carriage drivers to adapt to life changes / become more resourceful, yet you condemn the industry because you feel for the horses. the 'wild and free' fantasy is becoming non-existent more and more every day. many rescues and sanctuaries are filled to capacity and these carriage horses and their families HAVE adapted to the changing lives that they have. the horses and families are resourceful, they are happy, healthy, well adapted and contributing to society. maybe you are the one who needs to adapt to a different life and way of thinking. stop trying to 'feel' for the horses, i sincerely doubt you are capable of that. facts seem to elude many who insist that everyone think and feel the way they do about the carriage industry. you all post what you consider abuse pictures and give your opinion on what that picture says without the facts behind it. more than likely, the seconds or minutes before would tell a completely different story. like, for example, a horse eating off the ground, minutes before, the horse had a bucket and he is eating what fell out of his mouth. yet a caption would read.... horses forced to eat off dirty city streets. this article sounds an awful lot like you and your kind want the horses to be extinct. and just what does a happy horse look like? running 'free' out west being chased by blm helicopters to be penned up for the rest of it's life or to stay until being hauled off lord knows where in the middle of the night?, or maybe running 'free' away from predators? or standing in a field bored to nearly death? you do know that horses cannot smile, right? they lack those facial muscles. a horse at rest will lower it's head and maybe cock a hoof, but how many think the horse is 'sad' or injured? get educated on horses and their behavior, their ears tell more of how a horse is feeling than looking at sad eyes, which is only a human interpretation anyway. i can tell just by the way my horse stands, has his ears, his body language and a somewhat by the look in his eyes what he 'feeling'. but ALL factors come into play, not just one