Should the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms (BATFE) be abolished?


  • SteveInSD - 13 years ago

    BATFE should never have existed in the first place. If we are able to salvage our republic, it will include abolishing BATFE, along with many other alphabet agencies.

  • Julian - 13 years ago

    How did firearms get lumped in with an agency whose tasks centered around taxation of alcohol and tobacco. I understand enforcing tax laws on alcohol and tobacco products.

    That part of BATF that handles arson and explosives should be moved into the FBI. Why duplicate enforcement efforts in violent crime because it involves arson or explosives??

  • Ed - 13 years ago

    There is a fact that most Americans seems unaware of. That fact is that the US Government has NO authority within the many states. The BATFE/IRS is acually a foreign bureaucratic organization housed in Puerto Rico. The BATF originally was set up to collect taxes on imported firearms, tobacco, and alcohol. it had no authority within the states because the US Government, a corporation, has jurisdiction only as dictated by Article I, Sections 17 and 18, and over territories via Article IV of the Constitution for the united States of America.

    In other words, the BATFE acting within the states is unauthorized, and therefore these thugs must get permission to enter after showing probable cause that weapons, alcohol, tobacco (and now explosives) were sneaked in without import tax paid on them.

    It does not come under the commerce clause, as the the word "among" does not mean "between".

    One might say it is just another of the federal government's many frauds and crimes against the people making up these united States.

    Thus, the BATFE does not have to be abolished; it must be kept to its lawful jurisdiction. Sheriffs (most of whom are as corrupt as the feds and state governments) must forget their own coffers and lust for power over the people and remove the BATF/IRS thugs from the states.

    Lastly, people who want to live in freedom must come to realize and force that they live "not under the control of government", as it is we people in these united States that share equally in the sovereignty. We are the bottom line governing body, and supreme over every artificial entity known as government and government's officials.

    Of course, the truth is the absolute defense. Therefore, judges, cops, etc. must be held accountable for not upholding their Oaths of Office. There is only one punishment for treason, and every oath-violating SOB i(ncluding judges, court officials, legislators, executive branch members, etc.) in government should be tried, convicted, and hung. That would soon stop the BS of government having tyrannical control.

    When government fears the people, there is freedom. When the people fear the government, there is treason. (can't remember who first said that - sorry)

    Thus, we can (and should) begin with kicking the BATFE/IRS out of the many states, followed by undoing of this agency, the Federal Reserve international banking cartel that are the actual behind the scenes controllers.

    If any care to comment directly to me, my e-mail is

    Hate mail is welcomed, as such always gives me great fodder for articles on the stupidity/ignorance of the American people. If you do, though, try to support your emotions with facts, not the same BS handed out, for examples, by mainstream media, other propagandists, such as politicians, judges and other magistrates, and attorneys well versed and trained in "returning or transferring property to the King"

  • Chris - 13 years ago

    Maybe the NRA should be abolished too.

  • The Watcher - 13 years ago

    ATF is Not a Federal Law Enforcement Orginization..Though they appear as such.
    Make NO Mistake it is a "Poor Copy" but "Deadly", "Military Strike Orginization"
    I have the Honor of knowing 2 "TEAM" "Operators", they have Trained ATF Agents..they didn't/don't hold them in High Reguard. On every Level.

    Playing Operator and being a "Operator" are Very Different....Not my words ;)

    ATF wouldnt do so well against real "Tango's"....Again Not my words ;)

    God Bless you Guys, You know who you are.

  • commiekiller - 14 years ago

    While I support the NRA on most issues, I believe they are wrong on BATFE issue. JPFO is right on this issue.

  • usmcss77 - 14 years ago

    ! Our Constitution ! has been so diluted with all the blasphemous amendments in place, that the framers would be up in arms a long time back. We need to stand firm, in our belief that the law of the land is not up for grabs. No compromise, no retreat...Semper Fi.

  • J. E. Freeman - 14 years ago

    I Have Been A Member Of N.R.A. For 20 Or More Years And I Dont Understand
    Their Thinking. I Am Also A Ex Law Enforcement .I Think They Have To Much
    Keep Up The Good Work.

  • Provocateur - 14 years ago

    Americans in the last few months have bought enough weapons and ammo to outfit the entire Chinese and India armies.

    What are you to do ... BATF?

    Be a hero?

    There are in excess of 24 Million veterans in this country of which I am one. There are 80 Million PLUS gun owners in this country of which I am one.


    Why don't you just go home and tell your families that you love them and can not in good conscience continue jailing and killing innocent people over over your unconstitutional gun laws? Why don't you just get a real job and make some honest money?

    Because I really hate to see this happen, but the day will come when you are hunted down because you used the constitution as toilet paper. Because you used your boots on the faces of untold amounts of innocent victims of your BATF.

    And some of you actually get a kick out of your "job". Some of you like the "power". Some of you are addicted to the adrenalin rush.

    The worm should turn in you. Otherwise, the worm will turn on you.

  • doodadad - 14 years ago

    Do away with BATFE, transfer all agents to the Border Patrol. No unemployment because of doing away with large beaurocracy and border security solved all in one move. Let attrition take care of over staffing.

  • Illuminos_9 - 14 years ago

    Those who legislate unconstitutional laws, as much as those who enforce such laws, are enemies of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. They have become the very same "domestic enemies" that they swear to defend us, and our immutable Constitution, from.

    Because they (the legislators and enforcers of any and all "gun control" infringements) have been corrupted beyond redemption, they should all be captured and held to account for their treasonous offenses, the American way.

    Feed the tree!

  • Gaurd Duck - 14 years ago

    Well, everyone else said what I was gonna say. But I wanna know where this fallen batfe agent memorial is: so I can pee on it.

    Free Marvin 'Popcorn' Sutton! (World famous moonshiner and local folk hero sent to prison for excercizing his G-d given right to make white lightnin' and sell it without asking permission)

  • One Bullet - One Vote - 14 years ago


  • mtnjimmi - 14 years ago

    This why for a long time I have advocated requiring rule issuing need to be supervised by congressional commutes who vote up or down on the rules.

    We should be run by the elected officials, not unelected bureaucrats.

    "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

  • Patriot - 14 years ago

    The BATF exists solely to further impower itself and dismantal the US Constitution. The BATF, the DEA, and Homeland Security are all in direct conflict with provisions of the US Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and need to be immediately disbanded.
    We espesscialy do not need the Office of Homeland Security because we do not have to worry about terrorist attacks now that the Islamic Fundamentalists have their man, "The Manchurian Candidate Obama," in the Whitehouse. They are too busy laughing thier asses off watching Obama destroy America from within.
    Attacking us now, and uniteing us in a common cause is the last thing they will do!!!
    Signed: A Patriot

  • James - 14 years ago

    I can tell you that today in the State of Delaware since the enactment of Gun Checks and a law that states the individual purchasing shall be voided, eliminated has not be done. Agaist the Stae Own the State of Delaware continues to track every gun purchas, including sex, age, address and more. Seems someone has some thing planned???????????????

  • Roger - 14 years ago

    The cost alone tells me it is a waste. How many crimes have they solved? Way back when the 4473 forms appeared the court case determined crimunals didnt have to truthfully fill it in. So what's the point? I see it as another government tit for bodies to suck on.

  • Edward L Straub - 14 years ago

    I am a retired military veteran, and I am watching as this country is beginning its journey down a slippery slope to socialism and worse. I have sadly taken down 'Old Glory'. The only flag I'll fly now, at least for the next four years, is a POW/MIA flag. If things get worse, I have a flag that can be resurrected to fly over the USSA.

  • Frosted - 14 years ago

    Just another Gov. Agency that has run amuk of the laws they are suppose to operate under.

  • tj - 14 years ago

    tigwelder56. Looking back through history, until the war between the states, there was very little federal involvement in the affairs of the states. The only involvement that the average citizen had with the federal government was the post office, defense and money.
    I would suggest that if the ATF (and other federal "alphabet" agencies were abolished, the states would have little problem in enforcing the firearms laws. We do not need federal control of firearms. Look what "federal control" of firearms does; Ruby Ridge, Waco and other atrocities. The federal "firearms laws" are so convoluted that the ATF is able to "interpret" and "reinterpret" to get the results that it wants. There is no oversight over this agency (and many other federal "alphabet" agencies.
    Making ALL government employees liable for their actions would work, but most (if not all) government employees are protected by "sovereign immunity" which absolves them of ANY liability for their criminal actions under cover of their agency.

  • tj - 14 years ago

    Let's not forget what our "president" barack hussein obama said. He wants to establish a "civilian security force" that would be equal in power to the military. Why?? It sure sounds like a KGB style organization not unlike what exist(ed) in the Soviet Union. When they tell you that you don't need your guns, that is when you REALLY NEED THEM. When they come for your guns, make sure you give them the bullets first.

  • tj - 14 years ago

    Abolishment--absolutely YES. The ATF is a rogue agency that should be put out of business. As to the NRA, they are more worried about "hunters and sportsman" than they are of the true intent of the second amendment. I would like to point out that the term "well regulated" was not about "laws" regarding firearms, but meant "well disciplined "making every shot count. A "well regulated militia" was a unified "force" of men that would be a "well disciplined militia", able to defend against ANY threat.

  • Howard Hastings - 14 years ago

    What is still wrong iwth the NRA? WHy can't they see that this Federal Agency is running out of control?

    THis is the same NRA the has twice supported a very lineral anti-gun candidate in the last two elections in my former county of residence here in
    southeastern Georgia, which is why I DID NOT continue my membership in that organization.

    Ornaizatoins like this and Gun Owners of America seem to be the only gun
    groups to defend the 2d Amendment!!

  • peter heinonen - 14 years ago

    the batf is an abomination. the nra is an enabling organization, which should be obvious to everyone since they did not endorse Ron Paul (the only pro bill-of-rights presidential candidate). toss your nra membership and join jpfo instead.

  • TED R BLACKWELL - 14 years ago

    The BATF agents in my area of residence seem to be very reasonable in their enthusiasm for enforcement of laws that some consider unreasonable and/or unconstituitonal. However the problem still exhists that these laws are unconstituitonal at least and unreasonable at best. And they were used as justification for the illegal breaking and entering and arson of a church with 76 men,women, and children inside. Those involved in this holocast were never even repremanded,much less prosecuited, and then promoted. HELLO! Whats wrong with this picture. Obviously this agency cannot be depended on to police itself and should be disbandeds. The loss of 76 souls for enforcement of TAX LAW VIOLATIONS [if any, which is still up for debate] is unacceptable. I have see enhanced infrared videos showing the federal officers firing into the compoud something the BATF/FBI people claim never happened, and films of people inside attempting to surrender being driven back inside by gunfire. The NRA is totally wrong not to support the abolition of this rogue agence.

  • Charles Labianco - 14 years ago

    Do you know that the NRA voted for a Gun Control Candidate?

    Do you know that the BATF Headquarters is out of the federal district ( territory) of Puerto Rico. And that Congress by law can make any laws for it's territory. So, you have a purely territorial police organization without legal authority to enter the united States, trying to enforce gun control against the people. Why don't you get proof of my statement and face the whole public with it including the NRA. Reply to this email and I'll dig up the proof which is somewhere in my "freedom documentation".

    Charles Labianco

  • Tim Jennings - 14 years ago

    Without the BATFE who would control the honest people. I have been an NRA member for 45+ years and it is very irritating to learn this. Looks like we just keep digging a deeper hole.

  • Fred Watkins - 14 years ago

    I believe the Federal Government has enough agencies/officers with police powers and in fact needs to reduce the number of agencies and therefore the number of officers with police powers. The FBI, along with the U.S. Marshall's Service and the U.S. Secret Service should be enough. I can't think of a reasonable rationale for maintaining a separate agency to enforce laws specifically for alchohol, tabacco and firearms/explosives.

    It would be a commendable action to just reduce or eliminate the "jackbooted, body-armored thugs" branch of the BATFE and instead rely more heavily upon local police jurisdictions for arrests or interventions when necessary. If cooler heads and more thought went into the intervention of the Branch Davidians by the BATFE, we might never have heard of Waco except as a nice place in Texas to visit.

  • Vera - 14 years ago

    Bean, United States v., •; 2002; 01-704; 643
    If BATF fails to act on a request for restoration of the right to bear arms, but does not actually deny the request, are there actionable grounds for judicial review to get those rights restored [NO].

    In fact, the BATF has refused to act, leaving a petitioner, who was felonized for a minor and non-violent infraction, permanently excluded from insuring his own right to life. And this refusal to act seems standard practice. On the basis of this alone I say disband the stinking organization.

  • Paladin - 14 years ago

    NO tax agency should have enforcement ability or agents, as this allows for abuse and removes the system of checks and balances built into our legal system. The police do not issue warrants, and cannot make arrests without them unless they directly witness a violation. This is to protect the innocent.
    The BATFe was originally set up as a tax agency to TAX alcohol and tobacco, firearms got added in and now explosives... The enforcement arm of the Justice department is not the BATFE, IRS, DEA or a can of Cambells Alphabet Soup, it is the FBI. The rest of these Agencies need to be disbanded to the point that they exist ONLY to accomplish the apropriate purpose without duplication of the FBI's job.

  • tigwelder56 - 14 years ago

    I'm a life member of the NRA and a member of JPFO. I don't like the attack stance the JPFO is taking on the NRA over this. They/We (NRA) are not the enemy and I don't consider their view to be as anti constitutional as you make it sound. You tend to take the NRA's view and position out of context and do too much para-phrasing to make your point sound better than the NRA's. If you banish the BATFE, who will enforce law at the Federal level? You never mention what your option is and how you would handle those individuals that do not and should not have the right to own a firearm in this country. You commit a felony, you lose your right to own a firearm.

    Abolishing the BATFE isn't the answer. I believe that lies in the laws that control the actions of the BATFE. It is still a department that by law is controlled by the people, for the people. When the people stop demanding their elected officials do their job in the manner that the people elected them to do, you open the door and the dogs run wild. Demand that your elected officials put the dogs back inside the fence and obey the directives the people established for them to follow in the first place. Without law there will be total anarchy. I don't think that is an attractive option either.

  • John Norris - 14 years ago

    I'll keep it short. I don't have what it takes to bullshit a nation into submission without a single shot fired, but for the few, and they are taking a wooping. Talk is the cheapest of all God's gifts to man. I don't see how you could doubt it with the government terrifying it's citizens with threats of martial law. I don't give a tinker's damn at this point. So here is my comment:

    Heah, fed man,
    Here's my email address and all you have to do for my postal address is put down your latte, pick up a pencil, don't step on your pecker as you do so. Now pull your nose out of the family pets asshole and give me a call. I will not accept a collect call, pay on delivery or any offer of free drinks at Eskimo Nell's. Now, over the years you've proven without a doubt that you can absolutely destroy a family, a nation and a world. So not only are you unqualified to run somebody else's life, you need to check out your own backyard(in your case the latrine), and don't forget to take notes with the pencil I suggested you pick up. There now, that wasn't so tough, was it? I'm serious and I truly feel that you are also. So consider this an open invite to drop by anytime for some more suggestions if you're in the neighborhood. I'm not going anywhere. Are you?

  • JOHN JONES JR. - 14 years ago



  • ROBERT G. HEINRITZ, JR., J.D. - 14 years ago

    Ask all media and news professionals - are they ready to go through the same background checks, fingerprinting, and other legal harassmant law-abiding Americans must go through to buy a gun - for the purposr of exercising their First Amendment rights?

  • Alice Lillie - 14 years ago

    There are a lot of rogue agencies in the Federal government, and I want to see them abolished, but the BATFE is at the top of the list.

    It is worse than a waste of money. It is a blatant outrage to the Constitution.

    Please see my webpage.

  • James Higginbotham - 14 years ago

    the IRS, BATF, ext and most other agencies, are ALL UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
    and need DISBANDED.
    the only way to do that, is by REVOLUTION.
    and with this Nappy headed Muslim pimp punk, and his band of SOCIALIST, MARXIST, COMMUNIST, thats fixing to happen.
    do we want it?
    NO'' but thats not up to us, its being PUSHED UPON US.
    we either FIGHT, or BE FURTHER ENSLAVED.
    this is NOT'' the REPUBLIC i grew up in, and it HASENT BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME NOW.

  • Turok - 14 years ago

    BATFE exists for its own phony baloney sake.... yet another useless and in fact counter-liberty bureaucracy that is out of control and can only do evil.
    Away with it!

  • Sylvan - 14 years ago

    As a Jewish war veteran I am appalled by self hating Jews such as SChuck the Scmuck Schmuer and Feinstein.

    These two are exactly like the Jews that helped the Nazi's exterminate 6 MILLION Jews and if Chuck had his way the rest of the Jews would also be put down.

    Never in my life have I seen so many self despising Yids

    Bastards one and all

  • Rightwing Cowboy - 14 years ago

    It is not that the BATF shoulc be abolished but that their mission statement should be re-written. For the most part Tobacco should be removed from the organization. We have the USDA and EPA that has basicaly taken over tha jurisdiction. Fire Arms should be relegated to local Sheriffs not a federal jurisdicition. Alcohol should be turned over to local bar and saloon owners. They have more experience with what is most tasteful. That leaves...oh, yeah, the eggheads in Washington...send the to Iraq.

  • Vic - 14 years ago

    P.S. I just learned there is in fact a method for tossing a justice out, the method I have been made aware of is an impeachment in much the same way as you would impeach a president.
    Hmm since legislating from the bench is a violation of the constitutions separation of powers I'd think that would be adequate charge myself.

  • Vic - 14 years ago

    The action that should in fact be taken would be quite difficult, considering obama will likely put 2 justices on the Supreme. Is there any question that he will chose terrorist sympathizer/socialists. In light of this you would need to put a president in the office after obama who actually wants to RESTORE this government to it's rightful owners, you know, (We The People).
    Such a president could demand a review of the current laws on the books concerning the following several subjects, not the least of which is 2A, he could and should roll back many treaties we have with the un as that the destruction of our National Sovereignty has been a goal of the un's for a long time. Upon completion of these examinations he would then need to declare (Publicly) that X laws are unconstitutional (X being the specific names of the laws), He should then give congress one chance to repeal all of these laws before he is “forced to take steps to defend the U.S. Constitution from an enemy attack from within”.
    AS you know, the president of the United States holds a military position. In such military position is the commander in chief of all military armed forces. He has during normal peace time no lawmaking power. The executive order is not supposed to be a peace-time lawmaking power. However, he has just declared a state of constitutional jeopardy. If the Congress does not comply with his insistence of the rolling back of the laws, this would become a constitutional state of emergency. IT would give him the power, legally, to wipe these things out by executive order in a non-peacetime situation (the way executive orders are meant to be used). It would also allow him to bring people responsible for this up on charges if need be. The only thing I am not clear on on my study of the constitution yet is how he would deal with those couple of people who are actually above the law. I speak of course of the aforementioned Socialist justices on the Supreme Court.
    As a president, in order to do this, and not have an already beaten and robbed public take you out, you would have to be very clear to them about why you are declaring this state of emergency and when it will end.
    But who would you trust to do just that!

  • E. La Montagna - 14 years ago

    Without a doubt. Sadly though it's about as likely to happen as my election as POTUS. As you can see from the result of this recent general election most of the voters in this nation only care about 'what's in it for me.' What do I get. "government money" Cradle to grave nanny state babysitting services, & "free" health care, etc. I observe NRA and other groups pat themselves on the back after a hard won compromise with the enemy of our BOR & constitution. Seems to me that it's always us doing the compromising and taking a step backwards. Never the other side. Slowly chipping away at our god given absolute right of self defense. All the while traitors and enemies of our BOR proclaim their support for "hunters and recreational shooters". We're doomed.

  • sherman thomas - 14 years ago

    Shouldn't we be taking a direct approach to this attack against the Constitution? Public officials take an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foriegn & domestic. When they turn around and attack that which they have sworn to defend it's clear & simple treason. Hanging has always been recognized as the penalty. Lets get on with it, least we be found guilty of not doing our job. A citizen not having taken the oath could be charged with subversion and delt with accordingly. In a year or to there wouldn't be any debate. There is laws on the books & there has always been laws on the books to get this done. When no actio is taken against the enemies of the constitution ofcourse they will attack it. Lets put a stop to it, not debate it.

  • Jim Galley - 14 years ago

    I'm still seeking that line in the Constitution which amends the part which states, "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" to allow for the existence of the BATFE. Since it doesn't exist, neither should the lawless BATFE.

  • RESIST THE NEW WORLD ORDER - 14 years ago



  • JoeSparky - 14 years ago

    In looking at the BATFE website just the other day I was reading a part that describes the purpose of the BATFE and it predecesor organization. The claim that they were brought into existence NOT ONLY at a taxing organization but to "MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT for citizens to own NFA firearms" (emphasis added).

    Absolutely, ABOLISH the BATFE! 2A"... THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." Notice it does not say anything about only owning a musket.... It is NOT limited to GUNS. Knives, Clubs, Mace, Mortars, Cannons.....ARE ALL ARMS!

  • Robie - 14 years ago

    The ATF/BATFE is as illegal as can be! They by their very nature are an infringement on rights guaranteed by the constitution, which is the supreme law of the land. And even at this, the constitution only guarantees we have these God Granted rights. The BATFE needs to disappear as the dinosaur and carnivorous bastard which it is.

  • Arklight - 14 years ago

    Burn All Toddlers First has apparently degenerated into a giant hit squad on several levels; political, personal, financial and physical. Not only should BATF be abolished, but everyone with ties to it should be investigated (if an honest cop or FBI agent still exists), indicted and brought to trial if evidence of criminal behaviour is legitimately determined to have occurred. All evidenciary tracks and trails should be vigorously pursued, no matter where they lead nor to whom. We have people in prison for bouncing a $20 check, telling some offensive person to 'kiss my - - - ', turn the non violent offenders out with a bracelet, and put the real criminals in prison in their place; just locking up most the the House, Senate, administration and banksters would be great, and if there's not room for BATF, well, Johnston Island always needs fresh help to dismantle chemical and biological weapons.

  • David Busener - 14 years ago

    Is the BATFE too big? Should it never have been instituted? Yes. However, we are makig progress. Just look at the number of 'carry' states compared to a few short political years ago. Line upon line, precept upon precept here a little there a little. The BATF (and now with an E) will eventually learn its place. Obama might hurt us a little being that he is a terrorist himself and has organizational skills in that area. He is from Illinois, what do we expect?

    Yes, we have to watch the Hussein Obamas closely, but the Supreme Court just said without ambiguity that the Second Amendment is an individual right. The individual nature of our civil rights is the crucial issue isn't it? Because of the Heller decision legislative truths will begin to fall into perspective eventually allowing for the restoration of our right to bear true military arms for the defense of home, country, etc. - the manner of defense capability the Founders knew and understood. Muskets were far more deadly back then than any battle rifle of today used in our time (medical science is doubling every five years).

    I firmly believe that neither Obama or McCain is able to know a man enough to predict the outcome of a Second Amendment vote. Unlike a vote reversing RvW on abortion, a retraction of the 'individual-ness' of the right to own arms would, without doubt, spark a very ugly retribution by those who are truly are willing to sacrifice everything and die in defense of every one of our civil rights (not me, of course, I am a sheep).

    Any Supreme Court who now turns traitor on the Second Amendment after having defended it risks the lives of their wives, children, grandchildren, friends, etc. I believe many Americans will reach out in such a manner - not me, again, I am a sheep.

    The subtile removal of our civil rights by the conspiring and cowardly has been largely abated. Obama would hurt, but he wil not win.

  • Greg Tekautz - 14 years ago

    I would ask BATFE agents about the oath they swore too when they took office.
    What constitution was it they swore to protect and defend?

    I would like to inform all agents of the BATFE, FBI, CIA, any and all other so called "federal law agents' who, by taking this oath, and blindly follow orders, and knowingly violate an American sovereign's Rights and liberties, they, as well as their superiors, are traitors to America and its sovereign citizenry, who are, WE – the PEOPLE.

    Also, they should be advised that any and every so-called law that places restrictions upon WE- the PEOPLE, is in violation of the Constitution, and such laws are deemed by the Supreme Court as a non-law, and to be ignored.

    And lastly, they should be advised that the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment is that of a hunting license for all true patriotic Americans, who, when we have had enough, declare Open-Season on all oppressive politicians, law-enforcement officers and soldiers, who, without regard to their oaths of office, ignore the Rights of the people, and are willing to destroy what America is suppose to be; A free nation, with sovereign citizens, who are to be protected and served by those who we have elected or authorized to protect us, our families, and this great nation.

  • Kim - 14 years ago

    Thank G-d I live in Texas! The 'BATFAGS' fangs reach can be dilluted by the vastness of the Nation of Tajas. There are an estimated 2 firearms per household; probably something like 50 million or more. A little bit like Israel here in Texas; shoot first and let there be only one story to tell.

    I will NOT recogonize Senator Borack Obama nor Senator Joe Biden to be President and Vice -President, should they win the election. The Govenor of Texas will do just fine. We don't need the Federales' in Texas. The Texas Rangers and DPS are quite adequate.

    Texas was a nation long before Prince Obama and will be long after. But count on the bastard loosening the BATFAGS on all gun owners. Using executive powers, this will only get worse.

  • Michael McQuown - 14 years ago

    Maybe not abolished; just drop the firearms part. Alcohol, tobacco and explosives are really separate matters with real criminal issues.

  • scott(pat h.) cockrell - 14 years ago

    i see comments and articles proving research into historical and legal documentation. my own private research isn't measured in years but has given the answers to this(gun-control-batfe-individual liberty)and other issues. my thoughts and comments are not meant to insult or cause disent. grow a pair!!! borrow a pair!!! or whatever it takes to speak the truth!!! if your not willing to"draw a line"at least give the impression that personal liberty will be defended in america!!! i cant convince people i know to vote. that suggests i'm an execption in being willing to e-mail those i help get into office. if i'm among the few willing to let our representatives know their criminal activity is identified--then maybe i'll be dead when all the sheep(former citizens)are herded-around,ever so obediently,doing the dirty work for their masters. do you think you wont obey these traitors in exchange for a life"saturated"with regimentation? look at history!! the french police did the gestapo's work by delivering jews,gypsies and anyone that spoke against the very power that occupied their homeland. polish citizens did similar"tasks"--old films show public atrocities. people behaved as if the ss simply removed barriers that formerly prevented the beating and torment of people by their own countrymen. in the u.s.,informing the police of your neighbors activities is not only widespread,but is commonly accepted. all examples have something in common--subjecting others to scrutiny for the sake of being left alone or being a"good citizen". "sheep"have never liberated a thing--not even themselves!!!

  • C.R. FOWLER - 14 years ago

    The BATFE has a lengthy history of criminal action against innocent Americans--the BATFE is a criminal organization and is being used by the criminal Diane Feinstein et al. as her and theirs personal Gestapo to bully and incriminate law abiding American citizens!

  • Assrot - 14 years ago

    The BATFE is the biggest waste of time and money that our government has ever created. They do absolutely nothing positive for law abiding citizens. They are very good however at making sheep out of law abiding citizens and allowing the real criminals to run free and prey on the innocent.

    The BATFE is an embarassment that should have been abolished long ago. It is a money pit that serves no useful purpose. They should have their agents do something constructive like scrub toilets at the bus station.


  • Dan - 14 years ago

    The last time I checked alcohol tobacco and firearms were all legal for the most part. So, to borrow a phrase, “Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be turned into a convenience store instead of a government agency.” They seem to have plenty of inventories and could sell laptops as well.

  • Dan - 14 years ago

    The last time I checked alcohol tobacco and firearms were all legal for the most part. So, to borrow a phrase, “Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be turned into a convenience store instead of a government agency.” They seem to have plenty of inventories and could sell laptops as well.

  • Ryan - 14 years ago

    Israel is a nation that is supposedly our ally and they have a heavily armed populace. Yet, they have not descended into total chaos with OK Corall shootouts every day. We as a nation should use them as an example of how an armed society can exist. Israel should be called upon to help us fight off those who wish to abolish the 2nd amendment. We send them 3 billion a year in aid, they can repay the debt by supporting our cause. I am not a jew but I support theirs and my own right to carry weapons not just for sport but as a means of self defence and a deterrant to government tyranny. Jews, Gentiles...Unite under a common goal! Then we invade Canada and help those under totalitarian gun restrictions out as well ha ha.

  • Craig - 15 years ago

    The BATFE should be abolished immediately. I have never figured out how these unelected people make such sweeping decisions regarding our 2nd Amendment rights. Who gave them the authority to tell us what can be imported, what can be sold to honest, law-abiding Americans? They wield these decisions like a "what's for dinner?" level of importance.
    There's no doubt that restrictions to higher levels of weoponry and armament are needed. I don't need F-16's or any type of WMD's. That's why we have our trained military. But for unelected beaurocrats to tell me that we can't be trusted with WW2 military surplus barrels and/or receivers, (no longer legal to import), has me ready and willing to vote them into oblivion, sign any petitions to that design, and to definitely let my State and Federal Representatives know that it's time for the BATFE to be dismantled and abolished. There's a lot of reasons to dismantle the BATFE, and it could be done in a safe and organized manner. And,as has been noted in other posts here, there are a lot of very important positions open that these qualified agents could be transferred to. Border Patrol, Immigration, DEA, let's get rid of these drugs that are killing our kids!

  • richard - 15 years ago

    the atf is as close to the gestapo as you can get,they are accountable to no one

  • Michael - 15 years ago

    Bill - 3/8 5:02 pm est Problem is, if these Predatory Organizations were all folded into one organization, the elites' program of subjugation and enslavement of the general population would suffer a HUGE SETBACK!

    If the purpose were LAW ENFORCEMENT, I'd quietly eliminate the Bureau of Assassins, Terrorists, Firebombers and Elder-Abusers and make a solemn vow to the American people that their fellow Americans will never be demonized and incinerated just because they were accused of deviant sexual practices, were inconvenient and refused to cooperate with a government agency which was shining bright lights into their windows and booming loud, obnoxious racket into their home. Then I'd eliminate the DEA which has now become famous for celebrating the death of an AIDS activist who who died as a result of being forced to give up smoking "Medicinal Marijuana" (Approved by the people of California) so he could be released from jail during his trial - One of the DEA agents had the gall to call his death "a good result". And, Then I'd dissolve the TSA which "strip searched" a 3 year-old girl and an 80 year-old grandmother rather than thoroughly checking out Middle Eastern Muslim Men which were allowed to pas through without a comment. The father & mother of the 3 year old were threatened with Federal Prison when they objected to the molestation of their daughter.

    As I'm doing that, I'd assign the agents who want to do HONEST WORK to the Border Patrol (where they have to treat even ILLEGAL ALIEN DRUG RUNNERS as if they have Constitutional Rights), to the FBI (Authorize 25% increase in personnel) and as Air Marshals (50% increase in personnel - Training provided at Gov't expense at Frontsight), and I'd build the new ARTIC SUPERMAX FEDERAL PENITENTIARY in ALASKA for those who continue in their criminal activities.

    And, At the same time, I'd go to Congress and pass a Resolution undoing all of the Regulatory Powers these agencies had in order to force Congress to actually pass laws expressing the actual will of the people on these issues. I know Congress wouldn't have time for any of their usual Partisan bickering or self-congratulatory Senate & House Resolutions, but this would force them to do the work we hire the bums to do.

    As I often say on another forum, I hope this makes sense.

  • J.D. "Duke" Schechter - 15 years ago

    Unless every copy of the Constitution I own has been redacted, there are certain irrevocable facts still applicable: The power to enact law lies with the legislature, elected by and responsible to 'We the People'. It cannot be delegated to an unelected bureacracy, responsible to nobody. By doing so, Congress is guilty of both dereliction of duty and of attempting to undermine the very Constitution authorizing it - in a more honest era, that was called 'treason', and punishable by death.

    Those rights enumerated by the first ten amendments to that Constitution were ratified - as a whole - specifically as an acknowledgement that they were inviolate, had preexisted the nation itself, and were not subject to revocation or modification at the whim of changing political climate or administration: They were established by a power higher than throne or presidency.

    The history of this nation was forged in fire and the blood of patriots and tyrants. If we are to continue as a nation, the principles which called for such sacrifice may yet rally those upon who the inheritance falls - or the nation will fall, condemned not merely by the hand of petty bureaucrats, but by those who willingly yielded the liberty they had.

    (Brought to you as a public service by the Republican candidate for Arizona House Legislative District 27).

  • Bill Senko - 15 years ago

    We already have too many specialized law enforcement agencies. This is redundant and a huge waste of our tax dollars. The BATFE, DEA, FBI, and the others should all be consolidated into one agency with one leader who will be responsible for everyone's actions or inactions. Maybe place them under Homeland Security?

  • gbsjr - 15 years ago

    Don't kid yourself, if we did not have the DEA, we would have the BATFED

  • Richard Popkin - 15 years ago

    There need be only one law enforcement agency to enforce the laws of the United States (i.e. FBI). There should not be an agency within each department charged with enforcement, which in many instances create or interpret the regulations they are charged with enforcing (i.e. BATFE). The FBI is at least selective in its special agents, requiring them to be educated and fluent in a second language. For many other agencies you need only be a thug. Dispose of the other police forces and clean up the FBI. If the FBI recognizes the need for a new law or regulation, let them pass it on to Congress. Congress is too busy? Well who the hell needs Congress passing proposals to congratulate people on their birthday or for winning a sporting event?

  • Clive Edwards - 15 years ago

    Anyone commenting on the origins and activities of the ATF should read John Ross's "Unintended Consequences".

    As a life memberof the NRA I don't believe the NRA goes far enough in protecting our firearms rights. Without JPFO and GOA and other groups such as the Second Ammendment Sisters leading the way, the NRA would likely not do as much as does in protecting our rights.

    Having said that, the purpose of the NRA has always been primarily firearms training and keeping new shooters coming into our ranks. That is what the NRA excels at.

  • Porter Rockwell - 15 years ago

    NRA's Wayne LaPierre got it right with the "jack-booted thugs" remark. What Happened to those 2nd amendment sissies?

  • me - 15 years ago

    maybe some of the parinoid persons should be abolished. If it wasnt for the freaks this government enity wouldnt have started in the first place. Im speaking about the freaks.

  • Gunny - 15 years ago

    All these Alphabet-Soup organizations - to include TSA (airport security?), Homeland (In)Security etc are starting to really get on my nerves.

    The first hint is that government can solve a problem. The problem is usually created by the government. Drugs were outlawed years ago - and for good reason. However, what occurred was gang rivalry for turf. In business terms, the gangs (unsocial social organiozation) wanted to eliminate the competition in the market place. Well, this is the jurisdiction of local law enforcement. If they need help, there was the FBI. The wars and drug use (kids are told "its cool") started getting fairly out of hand - walla! The DEA was introduced. So what really do these agencies do? They "help" solve the problems that our government has created.
    I am a little older than most - but my social security card states clearly, "NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES".

    Alice - good point. the Federal Reserve is often portrayed as a government agency. Fact is, it is a private corporation, one that President Andrew Jackson shut down. He ran a constitutional Treasury.

    Marine - good points all. What the political machine and the "mainstream" news gives us are Democratic ultra-left liberals, and the Republicans give us is Left Light. As citizens (true rulers of this country by birthright) is to stay politically engaged with our represenatives from the school board to the Oval Office. We must stay engaged at all levels, on all issues because we have either morons, conspirators or leftists who would sell the country down the road for a nickel!

  • Alice Lillie - 15 years ago

    It's a no-brainer! Of course, the BATFE has got to go, along with Homeland Security, FEMA and a number of agencies.

    How about the IRS!!!

    And, the Federal Reserve, technically not a government agency, but, heck, it wields *massive power* over all of us! Its inflation just kept me away from Minneapolis and the Ron Paul event, also from marching in the St. Paul streets.

    Anti-gun Sen. Mc Cain, in his acceptance speech last night, said he would curtail unnecessary government activities and save as much tax money as possible! Hah!!! Don't you believe it! He won't abolish the BATFE or anything else!!!

    And allegedly pro-gun Palin? Hm. I just wonder how pro-gun she actually *is!*
    How does she compare with Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin or Ron Paul? Is she *really and truly* pro-gun?

    Click my name and see my blog. Read reviews on the works of Murray Rothbard, who, BTW, was 100% pro-gun, and pro-freedom in every possible way!

  • After the BATFE murdered those innocent women and children in Texas, they should have been disbanded, not given expanded powers.
    I'm a WASP, but I am smart enough to realize and appreciate that Jesus is a Jew. I am no anti-semite, actually, I'm a pro-semite ( I can hear the gas chamber doors closing as Cheney gives the order to kill us all to BLACKWATER).
    The BATFE is Bush's Gestapo, and he and Cheney will use their KBR mercenaries to knock the population back, so the Gestapo will have less resistance to deal with.
    When the people wake up, there will be no way the Gestapo and the Mercenaries will be able to save themselves from the rightous anger of a betrayed People. Americans are well versed in Vengence. We have been avenging ourselves for over 214 years.

    They think they can take away our weapons and we will be helpless. I have no weapons. I plan to kill Nazis and take THEIR weapons. Stay under the RADAR until you can kill a squad or two every day. Take their weapons and ammo, radios too (if they aren't GPS chipped), and use their commo against them.
    Supposedly "helpless" people kicked the Nazis asses, and slaughtered the scum, before they knew they were had. We can do the same.


    Down with Tyranny!!

  • J - 15 years ago

    "Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the *real* object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
    - Patrick Henry, 1788

    "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant."
    - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee, writing about Virginia Constitution

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
    - George Washington, 1790

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  • bert - 15 years ago

    There is no place in the Constitution that supports any beauracracy like the BATFE. It and several other government agencies should be abolished.

  • Bud - 15 years ago

    BATF is an illegal federal police force. There is no constitutional authority for their existence.

  • punch - 15 years ago

    Interesting read regarding the Federal Firearms Act:

  • Defender - 15 years ago

    People who have never committed an act against another person are serving multi-year prison terms because ATF says so. The demonization of gun ownership -- the badge of a free citizen -- is being helped along by judges, misinformed juries, unelected AND ELECTED bureaucrats at all levels, and local, state and federal law enforcement officers who reserve to themselves the right to own actual weapons of war while viewing the people who pay their salaries as criminals who simply haven't been caught yet. The War on Drugs brought asset forfeiture and punitive sentences for victimless offenses involving unconstitutional laws into the mainstream. Fifty years ago, people who wanted to own fully-automatic weapons (machine guns) were vilified, and ultra-restrictive laws passed concerning weapons of military design and function. The Secretary of the Treasury was empowered to add other weapons to the list, and did, including semi-auto rotary-magazine SHOTGUNS. Now semi-auto rifles -- a design that has existed since the 1890s -- are under attack. Again.
    ATF is not a "rogue agency." In the 15 years since Waco, ATF agents involved have been promoted and have retired with full pensions. The four agents killed in the initial breaking-and-entering of that home/church are memorialized at the new BATFE headquarters. Waco was over a SUSPECTED unpaid machine gun TAX and REGISTRATION. No such weapon was ever found, and no one at the Mt. Carmel community was known to be prohibited from owning guns in the first place. It was supposed to be a successful raid to divert attention from a racist-themed picnic by federal officers.
    It is a signpost of today's times when people who urge that the very tenets America was founded on -- presumption of innocence, right to confront an accuser, right to competent counsel, and the right to CHALLENGE UNFAIR LAWS -- are called fanatics and worse. Our leaders say we must "balance individual rights and the need for public safety." Yet they allow violent criminals to have suspended sentence after suspended sentence no matter what. One must wonder whether an environment of fear is necessary for people to accept ever closer scrutiny of EVERYONE. Government should not be in the business of regulating private behavior which harms no one, and the definition of "harm" should be very narrow and specific. Laws do not change behavior, they only increase the "opportunity cost" for what people -- determined that THEY know what's best for them, NOT the government -- are going to do anyway. That breeds smuggling, back-alley septic abortions by medical students, and competition for inflated revenue from contraband. In fifty years of the War on Guns and 48 years of the War on Drugs, what has been accomplished, other than to create urban war zones?
    I suggest voting for REAL change. Elect a third-party candidate who has read the Constitution and Bill of Rights recently, and liked it.

  • Allen Lough - 15 years ago

    Any time a bureaucracy is created and given virtually unlimited power over citizens, it naturally develops an ever increasing appetite for more power and control. As Lord Acton so accurately observed, "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." The BATFE, like the IRS, has been given way too much power, and have, consequently, become way too corrupt. It is time to abolish both of them!

  • Chris - 15 years ago

    The BATFe has become way too powerful and totally lacking in accountability - and Congress seems to keep ignoring this. It's time to withdraw the over funding at very least.

    What started as a simple taxing authority has grown way out of control, enabling them to make up their own rules and abuse the people's rights as legal gun owners. Trumped up charges seem the order of the day.

Leave a Comment

0/4000 chars

Submit Comment