fully agree with this. i also buy it only because its upgradeable to 1080. but no? maybe it was my first and last clevo. thats a big fail. the upgrade ability is the only argument to spent so mutch money for a beast machine.
The only reason I bought my P870DM was because it looked like it was made for upgrades and it was an SLI machine. I was hoping to keep it SLI but it's looking like only single 1080 will work at the moment. Hoping this is fixed.
danger007 - 8 years ago
Well I am not in the market right now for a new gpu or notebook. When my AW does finally sing its swan song and no hope of replacement parts at a price that doesn't make it unreasonable or better to switch new, I will go with new. Since we are at the mercy of the notebook\laptop makers I will have to go with what they offer. I would not buy strictly from any company based on upgrade options. Get a horrible laptop for upgrade wouldn't make sense.
Sad that so many companies have decided they know what is best, but I think it is because they have seen what the community can do to extend the life of a machine and so they do not want to repeat that or they lose money on the constant upgrade treadmill they desperately need and depend on. I just hope they feel the outrage from users and decide to switch back. However the ? is are there issues we are not aware of with the current interface and the gpus? Is Intel putting pressure on them as we know intel had initially suggested they were going BGA for all future cpu's and that caused such an uproar they said oh we were just thinking out loud, we would never do that. So perhaps they meant to do it on laptops, sort of get their feet wet and test the waters of doing such a thing in the future with desktops.
Since the larger of the gaming communities are desktop, us laptop users don't carry as strong a voice. To me the upgradability (reliability and customer service and support as well) is key in making a final decision. That is why I went with the model and company I did. My previous two laptops were so limited in upgradeability that I didn't want to make the mistake a third time.
ssj92 - 8 years ago
The AMD Polaris poll option is fine. It will be an MXM 3.xb card. The point is to see how many people will get the AMD card if that ends up being our only mxm 3.xb card. Looking like most people would love an mxm 3.xb pascal based card but whether or not this poll will help us with a solution is another thing.
Brent R. - 8 years ago
Can we please remove the AMD question from a Pascal poll? Thanks
Negatis - 8 years ago
Victim complex much, anyone? Good grief...
triturbo - 8 years ago
Actually it already is a downgrade, why the poll, if it was otherwise?
triturbo - 8 years ago
@Mr. Fox - You probably forgot that it's nGREEDIA that got us here, like this very poll and the situation we are into. So voting for nGREEDIA really means downgrade in the long term.
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
Wow, I find it extremely difficult to believe 6 people (as of today) would actually be willing to settle for an AMD-powered piece of trash. I will definitely go back to building my own desktops before that would be an option. Anything new that AMD brings to the table in 2016 represents a downgrade and is inferior to the old GPUs we want to upgrade. I think it is time for all good men to start saying no to notebooks. What just happened to all of us is pure bullshit.
Raidriar - 8 years ago
There needs to be a unified MXM standard that is free of royalties and nVidia.
That being said, if MXM disappears, I will likely switch to desktops. I liked being able to upgrade my laptop, gave me several years of top notch performance. I dislike disposable, expensive machines.
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
I think adding that question to the poll is a serious mistake. It gives Clevo some wiggle room and they don't deserve that. Unless or until AMD releases a 1080 SLI killer that overclocks better, they have no horse in this race. They are losers.
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
Hmm... AMD is a joke. I'm not sure why we have a new question about Polaris in a Pascal poll. I would be looking to upgrade my P870DM-G, not downgrade it. Leaving laptops and going back to desktops is a far better than accepting anemic trash from AMD.
julius - 8 years ago
et tu, Clevo? Then fall, sales!
BennyG - 8 years ago
BGA, the attempt to kill overclocking, now across the board proprietary crap. Where's the antitrust on this? Certainly looks like monopolies arbitrarily limiting consumer choice and resale. Cmon surely the legal system has an ambulance chaser or two to spare here? Easy money abounds guys, cmon they got a settlement out of the 970 3,5gb non-issue that's how easy it is to win cases against these idiot companies!
Th3Gh0sts - 8 years ago
I bought a clevo to upgrade the gpu and now I can't do that anymore.
Papusan - 8 years ago
Without the upgrade opportunity for gpu in Notebook's.... Forget my money (I will not buy). Without upgrading opportunities for use of new better gpu, I will start build a desktop rig as I did before. I will profit from this, while all and every ODM / OEM will lose!!
And I will quote TBONESAN and use his words. He is quite right in what he says !!
Nikos - 8 years ago
Prevent users to upgrade its Gpus is quite possibly the worst business decision I have ever seen only surpassed by the time Yahoo did not buy Google on the first place.
I bet an arm that this decision was taken by a guy who will never understand what is he selling and why. if you keep up with this idea I wish you luck you sure are going to need it.
bloodhawk - 8 years ago
Sad thing is that majority of the people in the market looking for a $3k laptop dont even know about Clevo DTR's. And then out of the ones that do know about, only 1% care about upgrade ability ? Give me a break, those stats are just a way of lying and getting genuine people like Prema off their tails.
And after all the bullshit they just pulled, im glad the more people dont know about these DTR's. I for one am not going to recommend Clevo's. Might as well suggest an ASUS with a soldered on 1060/1070 , which at least looks good. And is disposable in a year or 2.
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
For those that find this poll without the associated forum threads feeding it, below are links to further discussions. Clevo and NVIDIA would be wise to drop everything, shut up and listen to the heartbeat of their customers. Their future, and especially the future of Clevo, may be jeopardized if they don't pay attention and avoid repeating the stupid mistakes they just made going from 900 series to 1000 series. The need to fix this. It would be a real shame to think that it took a poll like this one to get them to pull their heads out of their bottoms.
Unified MXM OR NEVER. I WILL NOT PAY A SINGLE CENT FOR SHIT THAT GETS OBSOLETE AFTER LESS THAN A YEAR OF OWNERSHIP.
I was in the process of ordering a P870DM, GTX 1080 in SLI but I stopped.
You know why? What guarantees me that this $5000 will not be obsolete when the next gen is released.
I say LET IT ROT/RUST what ever happens to electronics!!! M$I/CLEVO/AW/Ngreedia.... You are FIRED!
jpsm - 8 years ago
give us mxm! aka what they said! T_T
ssj92 - 8 years ago
I'm definitely not buying another Clevo at the moment. If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, I'll keep it for now and hope for at minimum 1070 SLI to be made available. If not , I will be beefing up my desktop and give up on high performance laptops.
I've owned Clevo P570WM, Alienware M18x, M17xR3, AW17, AW18, P870DM and it looks like it might be the end of the road for these level systems.
Maybe it's time for SLI Titan X on the desktop and 8-core CPU...
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
If Clevo relied on data that says 1% of their customers care about GPU upgrades, then we may as well all forget about purchasing high performance notebooks forever and go back to building our own desktops. I find that difficult to believe. It flies in the face of the fact they used desktop CPUs. If 1% cared about GPU upgrades, less than 1% would care about having a good CPU.
Now, 1% of notebook owners, yes... I could believe that because being an idiot is the norm. That's why BGA turdbooks exist. There is no shortage of stupid. But, 99% of all Clevo owners being retarded seems like a stretch. If it is true, then we're all screwed because stupidity en masse is almost always fatal.
Ultimately, this will be their loss. My budget cap for disposable BGA filth is capped at less than $500. Any notebook that cannot be upgraded for at least 3 generations of GPU releases is a worthless piece of shit and I will not waste my money buying disposable shit.
TBone - 8 years ago
Thanks to Clevo changing the MXM sizing on us I can't upgrade my 1 month old maxhine. There was no good reason for doing this.
I've got a gaping hole in my wallet and my ass, thankyou.. CLEVO
Knight - 8 years ago
I've bought Clevo P870DM (4K) as my workstation. I need it since my work depends on it.
I bought ONLY because upgradeability. I need GTX 1080 or at least single 1070 for further development and now I'm left on ICE. Give me my money back or possibility to upgrade GPU. Not many can afford changing laptops like a gloves... I'm bound to mine for at least 2-3 years... GG CLEVO you probably lost customer.
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
i_pk_pjers_i - you are correct. Thank you. It is absolutely amazing. It is for sale on eBay since I cannot use it for the purpose for which I purchased it. It will serve a hardcore gamer extremely well for a very long time with no need for upgrades of any kind. It's a beast, but for my purposes it is crippled and I cannot use it. As you already know, I am an overclocker/bencher first. Playing games is a casual endeavor that is nowhere near as demanding as my hobby.
i_pk_pjers_i - 8 years ago
I mean, Mr. Fox, to be fair, your P870DM-G is NOT a worthless piece of junk. It's still an amazing laptop and very likely will be for years.
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
Yup, stabbed in the back and left for dead with this goofball form factor shutting us out of upgrades. That really blows. My brand new machine is on eBay now. Can't use it if I cannot upgrade it to 1080 SLI. Seriously considering using the money to build a desktop so I don't get caught with my pants down a second time.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/272348067970
Chronokiller - 8 years ago
I'm pissed as well, I was debating whether to build a desktop or go the MXM DTR route. So I bought my p870 back in February and I'm just now getting the motherboard replaced under warranty to fix an overheating issue...the same week mobile Pascal is announced.
Now we find out we can't even upgrade...
I feel stabbed in the back with a rusty knife and then they poured salt on for good measure.
D2ultima - 8 years ago
I think everyone needs to stop shafting notebook users in general. I don't know who is going to read this, but let me break it down for you.
- We have a competition-less market, with Intel and nVidia being the ONLY choices possible for any midranged or higher performing machine.
- Intel and nVidia are pushing HARD for everything to be soldered (and thus generally disposable) for no real reason. A $1200 GPU soldered to a motherboard is a joke, and not the funny kind.
- Motherboards have power limitations and sub-standard, sub-optimal cooling everywhere, and instead of telling OEMs and ODMs to "fix it", they just limit the cards harder and harder each year so they don't burn themselves up.
- Video cards easily cost almost twice or more what their desktop counterparts are, and whether it be 5% or 50%, they are always weaker.
I don't think this really makes any sense. I don't understand why we have to pay twice as much for less product. Just because it's "mobile" doesn't make any sense. Even if extra $$ was required for it being "small" and for "mobility", the artificial limitations placed on the systems and generally badly-performing hardware should be MORE than enough to return that price back to a normalization standard.
So yes. I want to see MXM be a thing again. I want to have standards of upgrading, and I don't want to see models getting the proper attention they should be getting. Get laptops into a good, upgrade-able, non-BIOS-restricted standard like desktops are. Because this, right here, just is unacceptable.
ssj92 - 8 years ago
The only reason I bought my P870DM was because it looked like it was made for upgrades and it was an SLI machine. I was hoping to keep it SLI but it's looking like only single 1080 will work at the moment. Hoping this is fixed.
The 980 (180W) design in P775DM1 could have been used and we could have upgraded if 1080 was built off of that design!
bloodhawk - 8 years ago
If the Pascal GPU's are easily available and usable in my less than 6 month old P870DM-G, i would instantly upgrade.
Its rather disheartening to see how Clevo just fucked us over.
But with the way things are right now, im about to invest my money in a high end desktop. At least i wont be left high and dry that way.
Mr. Fox - 8 years ago
I am very unhappy that the GPU sizes have changed and my 2.5 month old P870DM-G is now a worthless piece of $hit that cannot be upgraded to the latest and most powerful graphics cards. If I could upgrade to 1080 SLI I would do so. I will think long and hard about sending money on another high end notebook. I don't take kindly to getting screwed. This kind of evil nonsense makes me want to abandon my 10-year passion for high performance notebooks and go back to desktops. I will never purchase a gamer turdbook with a BGA CPU or GPU. It is not even open for consideration. Having a beast with MXM slots that cannot be used is almost as bad (not quite, but close) as BGA filth.
ssj92 - 8 years ago
Even if we have to wait until next gen (Volta) as long as we continue getting SLI (mxm 3.0b) and single (mxm 3.1) designs that will be fine. It would allow older designs(ZM/DM1) to continue getting upgrades while also allowing new models(DM2/3) to get upgrades as well.
fully agree with this. i also buy it only because its upgradeable to 1080. but no? maybe it was my first and last clevo. thats a big fail. the upgrade ability is the only argument to spent so mutch money for a beast machine.
The only reason I bought my P870DM was because it looked like it was made for upgrades and it was an SLI machine. I was hoping to keep it SLI but it's looking like only single 1080 will work at the moment. Hoping this is fixed.
Well I am not in the market right now for a new gpu or notebook. When my AW does finally sing its swan song and no hope of replacement parts at a price that doesn't make it unreasonable or better to switch new, I will go with new. Since we are at the mercy of the notebook\laptop makers I will have to go with what they offer. I would not buy strictly from any company based on upgrade options. Get a horrible laptop for upgrade wouldn't make sense.
Sad that so many companies have decided they know what is best, but I think it is because they have seen what the community can do to extend the life of a machine and so they do not want to repeat that or they lose money on the constant upgrade treadmill they desperately need and depend on. I just hope they feel the outrage from users and decide to switch back. However the ? is are there issues we are not aware of with the current interface and the gpus? Is Intel putting pressure on them as we know intel had initially suggested they were going BGA for all future cpu's and that caused such an uproar they said oh we were just thinking out loud, we would never do that. So perhaps they meant to do it on laptops, sort of get their feet wet and test the waters of doing such a thing in the future with desktops.
Since the larger of the gaming communities are desktop, us laptop users don't carry as strong a voice. To me the upgradability (reliability and customer service and support as well) is key in making a final decision. That is why I went with the model and company I did. My previous two laptops were so limited in upgradeability that I didn't want to make the mistake a third time.
The AMD Polaris poll option is fine. It will be an MXM 3.xb card. The point is to see how many people will get the AMD card if that ends up being our only mxm 3.xb card. Looking like most people would love an mxm 3.xb pascal based card but whether or not this poll will help us with a solution is another thing.
Can we please remove the AMD question from a Pascal poll? Thanks
Victim complex much, anyone? Good grief...
Actually it already is a downgrade, why the poll, if it was otherwise?
@Mr. Fox - You probably forgot that it's nGREEDIA that got us here, like this very poll and the situation we are into. So voting for nGREEDIA really means downgrade in the long term.
Wow, I find it extremely difficult to believe 6 people (as of today) would actually be willing to settle for an AMD-powered piece of trash. I will definitely go back to building my own desktops before that would be an option. Anything new that AMD brings to the table in 2016 represents a downgrade and is inferior to the old GPUs we want to upgrade. I think it is time for all good men to start saying no to notebooks. What just happened to all of us is pure bullshit.
There needs to be a unified MXM standard that is free of royalties and nVidia.
That being said, if MXM disappears, I will likely switch to desktops. I liked being able to upgrade my laptop, gave me several years of top notch performance. I dislike disposable, expensive machines.
I think adding that question to the poll is a serious mistake. It gives Clevo some wiggle room and they don't deserve that. Unless or until AMD releases a 1080 SLI killer that overclocks better, they have no horse in this race. They are losers.
Hmm... AMD is a joke. I'm not sure why we have a new question about Polaris in a Pascal poll. I would be looking to upgrade my P870DM-G, not downgrade it. Leaving laptops and going back to desktops is a far better than accepting anemic trash from AMD.
et tu, Clevo? Then fall, sales!
BGA, the attempt to kill overclocking, now across the board proprietary crap. Where's the antitrust on this? Certainly looks like monopolies arbitrarily limiting consumer choice and resale. Cmon surely the legal system has an ambulance chaser or two to spare here? Easy money abounds guys, cmon they got a settlement out of the 970 3,5gb non-issue that's how easy it is to win cases against these idiot companies!
I bought a clevo to upgrade the gpu and now I can't do that anymore.
Without the upgrade opportunity for gpu in Notebook's.... Forget my money (I will not buy). Without upgrading opportunities for use of new better gpu, I will start build a desktop rig as I did before. I will profit from this, while all and every ODM / OEM will lose!!
And I will quote TBONESAN and use his words. He is quite right in what he says !!
Prevent users to upgrade its Gpus is quite possibly the worst business decision I have ever seen only surpassed by the time Yahoo did not buy Google on the first place.
I bet an arm that this decision was taken by a guy who will never understand what is he selling and why. if you keep up with this idea I wish you luck you sure are going to need it.
Sad thing is that majority of the people in the market looking for a $3k laptop dont even know about Clevo DTR's. And then out of the ones that do know about, only 1% care about upgrade ability ? Give me a break, those stats are just a way of lying and getting genuine people like Prema off their tails.
And after all the bullshit they just pulled, im glad the more people dont know about these DTR's. I for one am not going to recommend Clevo's. Might as well suggest an ASUS with a soldered on 1060/1070 , which at least looks good. And is disposable in a year or 2.
For those that find this poll without the associated forum threads feeding it, below are links to further discussions. Clevo and NVIDIA would be wise to drop everything, shut up and listen to the heartbeat of their customers. Their future, and especially the future of Clevo, may be jeopardized if they don't pay attention and avoid repeating the stupid mistakes they just made going from 900 series to 1000 series. The need to fix this. It would be a real shame to think that it took a poll like this one to get them to pull their heads out of their bottoms.
Tech|Inferno:
https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/10388-poll-pascal-mxm-gpu-upgrades/
Notebook Review:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/pascal-mxm-gpu-upgrades.795169/
Unified MXM OR NEVER. I WILL NOT PAY A SINGLE CENT FOR SHIT THAT GETS OBSOLETE AFTER LESS THAN A YEAR OF OWNERSHIP.
I was in the process of ordering a P870DM, GTX 1080 in SLI but I stopped.
You know why? What guarantees me that this $5000 will not be obsolete when the next gen is released.
I say LET IT ROT/RUST what ever happens to electronics!!! M$I/CLEVO/AW/Ngreedia.... You are FIRED!
give us mxm! aka what they said! T_T
I'm definitely not buying another Clevo at the moment. If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, I'll keep it for now and hope for at minimum 1070 SLI to be made available. If not , I will be beefing up my desktop and give up on high performance laptops.
I've owned Clevo P570WM, Alienware M18x, M17xR3, AW17, AW18, P870DM and it looks like it might be the end of the road for these level systems.
Maybe it's time for SLI Titan X on the desktop and 8-core CPU...
If Clevo relied on data that says 1% of their customers care about GPU upgrades, then we may as well all forget about purchasing high performance notebooks forever and go back to building our own desktops. I find that difficult to believe. It flies in the face of the fact they used desktop CPUs. If 1% cared about GPU upgrades, less than 1% would care about having a good CPU.
Now, 1% of notebook owners, yes... I could believe that because being an idiot is the norm. That's why BGA turdbooks exist. There is no shortage of stupid. But, 99% of all Clevo owners being retarded seems like a stretch. If it is true, then we're all screwed because stupidity en masse is almost always fatal.
Ultimately, this will be their loss. My budget cap for disposable BGA filth is capped at less than $500. Any notebook that cannot be upgraded for at least 3 generations of GPU releases is a worthless piece of shit and I will not waste my money buying disposable shit.
Thanks to Clevo changing the MXM sizing on us I can't upgrade my 1 month old maxhine. There was no good reason for doing this.
I've got a gaping hole in my wallet and my ass, thankyou.. CLEVO
I've bought Clevo P870DM (4K) as my workstation. I need it since my work depends on it.
I bought ONLY because upgradeability. I need GTX 1080 or at least single 1070 for further development and now I'm left on ICE. Give me my money back or possibility to upgrade GPU. Not many can afford changing laptops like a gloves... I'm bound to mine for at least 2-3 years... GG CLEVO you probably lost customer.
i_pk_pjers_i - you are correct. Thank you. It is absolutely amazing. It is for sale on eBay since I cannot use it for the purpose for which I purchased it. It will serve a hardcore gamer extremely well for a very long time with no need for upgrades of any kind. It's a beast, but for my purposes it is crippled and I cannot use it. As you already know, I am an overclocker/bencher first. Playing games is a casual endeavor that is nowhere near as demanding as my hobby.
I mean, Mr. Fox, to be fair, your P870DM-G is NOT a worthless piece of junk. It's still an amazing laptop and very likely will be for years.
Yup, stabbed in the back and left for dead with this goofball form factor shutting us out of upgrades. That really blows. My brand new machine is on eBay now. Can't use it if I cannot upgrade it to 1080 SLI. Seriously considering using the money to build a desktop so I don't get caught with my pants down a second time.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/272348067970
I'm pissed as well, I was debating whether to build a desktop or go the MXM DTR route. So I bought my p870 back in February and I'm just now getting the motherboard replaced under warranty to fix an overheating issue...the same week mobile Pascal is announced.
Now we find out we can't even upgrade...
I feel stabbed in the back with a rusty knife and then they poured salt on for good measure.
I think everyone needs to stop shafting notebook users in general. I don't know who is going to read this, but let me break it down for you.
- We have a competition-less market, with Intel and nVidia being the ONLY choices possible for any midranged or higher performing machine.
- Intel and nVidia are pushing HARD for everything to be soldered (and thus generally disposable) for no real reason. A $1200 GPU soldered to a motherboard is a joke, and not the funny kind.
- Motherboards have power limitations and sub-standard, sub-optimal cooling everywhere, and instead of telling OEMs and ODMs to "fix it", they just limit the cards harder and harder each year so they don't burn themselves up.
- Video cards easily cost almost twice or more what their desktop counterparts are, and whether it be 5% or 50%, they are always weaker.
I don't think this really makes any sense. I don't understand why we have to pay twice as much for less product. Just because it's "mobile" doesn't make any sense. Even if extra $$ was required for it being "small" and for "mobility", the artificial limitations placed on the systems and generally badly-performing hardware should be MORE than enough to return that price back to a normalization standard.
So yes. I want to see MXM be a thing again. I want to have standards of upgrading, and I don't want to see models getting the proper attention they should be getting. Get laptops into a good, upgrade-able, non-BIOS-restricted standard like desktops are. Because this, right here, just is unacceptable.
The only reason I bought my P870DM was because it looked like it was made for upgrades and it was an SLI machine. I was hoping to keep it SLI but it's looking like only single 1080 will work at the moment. Hoping this is fixed.
The 980 (180W) design in P775DM1 could have been used and we could have upgraded if 1080 was built off of that design!
If the Pascal GPU's are easily available and usable in my less than 6 month old P870DM-G, i would instantly upgrade.
Its rather disheartening to see how Clevo just fucked us over.
But with the way things are right now, im about to invest my money in a high end desktop. At least i wont be left high and dry that way.
I am very unhappy that the GPU sizes have changed and my 2.5 month old P870DM-G is now a worthless piece of $hit that cannot be upgraded to the latest and most powerful graphics cards. If I could upgrade to 1080 SLI I would do so. I will think long and hard about sending money on another high end notebook. I don't take kindly to getting screwed. This kind of evil nonsense makes me want to abandon my 10-year passion for high performance notebooks and go back to desktops. I will never purchase a gamer turdbook with a BGA CPU or GPU. It is not even open for consideration. Having a beast with MXM slots that cannot be used is almost as bad (not quite, but close) as BGA filth.
Even if we have to wait until next gen (Volta) as long as we continue getting SLI (mxm 3.0b) and single (mxm 3.1) designs that will be fine. It would allow older designs(ZM/DM1) to continue getting upgrades while also allowing new models(DM2/3) to get upgrades as well.