Honestly, I'm not sure. I do think it should be case by case.
On a proximate level, if in fact the law *at the time* was not broken (i.e. no prosecution under ipso facto laws or policies instituted in the last 200 days), then there is no case. If the law was broken, then it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the governing US law. Period.
It is the ipso facto issue that I hesitate on as I am concerned that it will be neglected if the Democrats get their way. If the investigation is to be done, it has to be without question absolutely impartial. How will that honestly be done given the ongoing visceral partisanship of the past 8 years?
If a crime was in fact committed, a "we all just need to move on" mentality is exactly what will erode our justice system and our own rights.
Carla Morin - 17 years ago
I hardly have any hair left from pulling it out everytime I hear how this stupid administration is handling our country! Now Obama/Holder want to investigate the CIA! LEAVE THE CIA ALONE AND LET THEM DO THEIR JOB! No one is telling you Obama/Holder how to do your job so BACK OFF! YOU WERE NEVER ASKED TO CONTROL everything in the USA! You MUCK UP the CIA and you are ENDANGERING ALL OF US! Obama says we must move forward but all he wants to do is look in the past so see how the CIA did its job ? Don't worry about the past, work on the ECONOMY, stupid!
TJK - 17 years ago
Actually Richard Saloman this is what FOX NEWS reported on the OBAMA adminstrations reaction to the Scottish Govt.'s decision to release Abdel Baset al-Megrahi
"The Obama administration expressed deep disappointment Thursday over the release of the Lockerbie bomber, saying the decision to let the Libyan terrorist go home was made by the Scottish government in spite of "extensive" appeals from U.S. officials."
1. Agree with your statement If there is a problem with the interrogations it should be taken up with the people giving the orders"
2. I disagree. It has EVERYTHING to do with the LAW.
TJK,
No problem on the question, but I hope you see my point.
I must agree that you're correct, to a degree. Your side cornered the market for decades, but now that the right has some zealots coming out, it's blown way overboard by Obama's State-run media.
Worse, with relatively peaceful town Halls, both Democrats and their media are calling all these people violent right-wing extremists. During the "Tea Party" MSNBC and CBS both tried to disparage the attendees with the same titles, yet nary a parking ticket was given to those protesters.
So, I think what your seeing is a major frustration building up on my side due to the fact that everything they do is attacked by the Democrats and media, their elected officials' refusal to answer questions, and basically that the last election didn't bring in the kind of change that was promised.
TJK - 17 years ago
I agree with Karen Lehmann and Debbie.
It is time to move on.
Please, Let's move past FEAR and FEAR-MONGERING and to move on to civil, intelligent discourse, whether it about this topic or healthcare.
"America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination, and unbeatable determination to do the job at hand.”
~ Harry S Truman
Please move past terms like "Death Panels"......and officials who are supposed to be responsible people using those terms.
America can do better.
Conservatives can be a part of that, if that can get past this Nazi, Socialist, Muslim, birth certificate rhetoric they have taken up lately.
Paul Reckley - 17 years ago
In MY opinion 'the administration' knows they are 'one termers' and are willing to 'go through hell and high water' to enact as much of their left wing radical agenda as is possible. I would think that the electorate is a lot more savy to Obamas plans and ideals now that he's unmasked his true reason for seeking high office. The past election was skewed by the fact that he received a hugh 'sympathy vote' and also those who just wanted to vote in the afirmative for the first African American as President of the United States. The more radical 'czars' he appointes the more his true agenda is exposed to the votes he picked up from the 'fringe voters'!. His time is limited and he knows it. I fervently hope that we can survive the next three and a half years.......and that in the next election cycle that BOTH give us someone of quality to vote for!
JT - 17 years ago
Does anyone remember we executed Japanese soldiers for water boarding? So it is ok for us to do it but we cant be held to the same standards? This is shameful in my opinion and im sure i will have people disagree. But torture is torture and just because it happens to be a Muslim it doesn't give us the right. BTW if a Middle Eastern man had shown up at a Bush or Obama rally with an assault rifle do you think he would have been aloud to walk around??? I Dont Think So. This country happens to be racist.
Richard Salomon - 17 years ago
This outrage is all part of the misinformation that is constantly being released by the Obama administration.
It has nothing at all to do with enforcing the law or the Constitution.
It is an obvious attempt by the Decorates to draw attention away from the fact that the President is very weak on national defense as seen by his ignoring the release of the murderer who killed 270 innocent people. How many innocents were killed by the CIA interrogators? All they did was there
sworn duty to do there jobs and obey there orders. If there is a problem with the interrogations it should be taken up with the people giving the orders.
Who in my opinion by the way were doing there honest best to protect not only Americans but innocent people all over the world.
This investigation is just a pile of political bull.
I'm sure that after testing the water and concocting an "opinion" Mr. Obama will have a Politically expedient statement on the matter of the release of the mass murderer,Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al-Megrahi .
Richard Salomon
Karen Lehmann - 17 years ago
Let's just move on. Another diversion to take eyes from the proposed healthcare travesty
TJK - 17 years ago
Here is the actual Armed Services Committee study(19 pages).
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf
Committee Chairman Carl Levin and Ranking Member John McCain.
Here is the Executive Summary, with comments from General Petraeus.
Executive Summary
“What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight… is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also all human beings”
-- General David Petraeus
May 10, 2007
Pablo - 17 years ago
So they had a couple of guns pointed at them and a drill turned on. Big deal, where I grew up in San Diego that is common. Welcome to the Wild West. Oh yeah I live here in Hawaii now and we love water-boarding!
Debbie - 17 years ago
Let it go........
MIKe - 17 years ago
I agree Malcolm. Torture is wrong!!
TJK - 17 years ago
Hi Joseph L. Williams,
I honestly did not know who you were talking about.
That is why I asked the question.
I do believe your comment about all of us speaking Arabic is extraordinarily silly. That kind of talk detracts from this country.
Conservatives are giving a bad-name to WILD-EYED radical with these kinds of comments. That used to be the territory of people on my side of the aisle.
But, man, your side of the aisle is loaded up with them, starting with that ninny Glenn Beck.It is not about what he says so much as the inflammatory way he has to say it for the sake of entertainment, I guess....bug his eyes out, screaming, making those bizarre facial expressions...WHEW!
Billy Dickwiggler - 17 years ago
Crazy Right Wingers
2009-08-25 19:20:45 ET
It's very simple - commit a war crime, go to jail.
PLEASE 'DEFINE' WAR CRIME ! ! ! that is
IF you can
ROFL.. yeah, he is flamboyant and his overzealous style isn't my cup of tea. Still, I wonder if I had a profession where I constantly had people spewing Michael Moore's lies-taken-as-Gospel, I'd get pretty frustrated, too. Honestly, I enjoy listening to Bill O'Reilly much more than anyone else.
As for others with "conservative" views here espousing absolutes and debasing themselves with name-calling, they are just as guilty.
However, let me ask you a question: every issue seems to be a divide between liberals and conservatives, the extreme left and the extreme right. what happened to groups being in the middle and being only slightly left or right of the center?
Wayne Graham - 17 years ago
Let me get this straight now. Since we can not interrogate someone using the methods that we used to save thousands of american lives. What would happen if someone was to storm the white house, say for instance the garbage man just wanting to get rid of the trash. Wake up America. Congress and the senate, along with the executive branch propose the laws and then tell us they can not do anything about them. This is a scare tactic and an effort to get you focused on something else besdies health care reform. They are looking for a way to go behind your backagain. Next time we win a war and the Troops come home we should send them to DC to win another one. Obama's present objective overseas is to demoralize our troops and also us here at home. We have good men out there. Why dont they give them what they need and untie their hands.
Jeff - 17 years ago
The fact that this is even a question is ridiculous. Should we investigate something we might have done wrong, possibly criminal? What kind of a country have we become that we have to ask ourselves. It's not partisan politics, it's right and wrong. It doesn't matter how bad the other side is. What matters is what we let ourselves become, what boundaries we decide are flexible enough based on the enemy we face. We are only righteous when we hold ourselves to the same standards we demand of others. It's not a matter of "R" and "D", it's a matter of destroying what we stand for in the pursuit of it's preservation.
Malcolm Zed - 17 years ago
All those so concerned about the US being labeled "a Christian nation" need to go back and read the sermon on the mount. The part where Jesus says to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" in particular.
Let the truth be known, no matter who it damns. If war crimes were committed, let just justice be served. Nazi war criminals had to pay for their actions, so should any US citizen guilty of war crimes.
Regarding Obama apologizing for American's actions, he is simply speaking the truth. Along with that though, he also asked Europe to admit and cease it's own arrogance towards the US; in an effort to bring about unity between our regions. Nothing wrong with that. That's what a president is supposed to do.
I used to thing the left was a bunch of whiners, but damn; you right wingers take the cake. A majority of the popular vote elected Obama as our COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. Deal with it already.
Mike - 17 years ago
What has happen to the United States of America? A country that set the standards for the rest of the World. A nation of Christian (VALUES) the most power nation in the world, let these sick terrorist (murders) We do not need to drop to that level!!
I didn't say anyone was attacking "me" at least as an individual. I did say that they are attacking those with differing opinions. So, when someone chooses a name like "crazy right wingers" or asking a poster if he's giving a name to voices in his head, I believe that's demeaning. Neither you, nor I, have had to sink to that level while debating this issue.
Is this the voice of Conservatives in this country now???
How sad.
Is there another William F. Buckley out there?
Or is the guy posting as BILLY DICKWIGLER now represent conservative thought?
Gale - 17 years ago
I don't understand how you can change the laws and then go back and punish someone. I know this is a bit unrealistic, but it would be like changing the speed limit and then giving everyone a ticket for speeding last year....doesn't make sense. If you operate under one set of laws and regulations, that is how you operate. If they change, then that change takes place at the time of change.
TJK - 17 years ago
Hi Joseph L. WIlliams,
1. Who are you talking about as "Intelligent Individuals"
2. Are those individuals attackin you?
3. Do you sincerely believe that if those involved did not break the LAW, we would all be speaking Arabic right now?
Ah, now we have two very intelligent individuals immediately and directly attacking those whose opinions are different. I bet you guys come right from the White House. Probably a Czar, even!
Whatever you are, you're both definitely cowardly and the reason for disunity.
Jeff - 17 years ago
OK, all you macho "do whatever it takes" types: where is the limit? Or because they're non-combatants and not subject to the laws of war, is there no limit? Can our servicemen and women enthusiastically rape captives? Should they kill children, cut them up with chainsaws while still alive, castrate children of captives. If it all allowed and in the name of protecting America, let's get creative about it!
But if you accept there is a limit, then try to define it. It's pretty hard to do.
Ian - 17 years ago
KEEP GITMO OPEN.....Send Bush and Chenney there!
Marie - 17 years ago
I have no problem with these bad guys being tortured, if it saves the lives of millions of Americans. Have we forgotten that these guys don't adhere to the Geneva Convention and will kill us in a heartbeat? If torture saves lives, then job well done! The Obama adminstration is bringing this up again as a diversion from the true issues of today, their health care reform fiasco.
MIKE - 17 years ago
we cannt torture alittle ,but they kill us all day long..........some folks need to wake up......................
Crazy Right Wingers - 17 years ago
It's very simple - commit a war crime, go to jail.
The Right is Wrong - 17 years ago
Billy Dickwiggler "why doesn't obummer just 'COME OUT' and put a towel on his head, and bow to mecca." --------------- Just who is this obummer? Is it one of your imaginary friends? A name you gave to one of the voices in your head?
Jason: actually, annual murders nationally, are about four times what happened in only one day, 9/11. Drunk drivers kill about five times annually what has been killed in one day. So there are several differences that you need to look at;
1. Drunk drivers and most murderers don't actively recruit others to join their "cause." They certainly don't recruit as a means of taking down entire societies. Militant Muslem Terrorists do exactly that. Nor do most drunk drivers and murderers specifically target large groups of civilians as a means to further their cause.
2. The "terrorists" or more Obama-like, "detainees" (remember, Obama says there are no more terrorists.. only enemy combatants), have been found for the most part on battlefields; Obama Bin Ladin, I mean Osama bin Ladin (sorry, typo), who group (Al Qaeda) has declared war on the US, but in have NOT abided by any rules of war neither in print nor in practice.
3. The ONLY reason there has not been so many more Americans murdered by terrorists is the fact that those heroes I previously mentioned took control and did what they deemed necessary under extreme conditions. We gained the intel and created a location to fight them that was NOT on US soil.
Hence, it's not so "little" a "crime."
Chrissy - 17 years ago
Why when we are facing TRILLIONS of dollars in deficit are we even considering this? REALLY Obama is this all you have to concentrate on? Do you think this country can keep floating while you're "helping" it with all this BS? Funny how you want to look into this now, but when Bush wanted to look into Clinton letting Osama go the democrats were outraged, "why look at the past" they said, "you can't change it?" So, now I'm asking the same!
I say President Obama & Congress get your heads out of your asses and do something that's really going to matter.
Jubal Harshaw - 17 years ago
A Christian (and Jew) is taught Lev 19:11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
The Koran has a completely different take on the subject. You see, if you aren't the correct 'flavor' of 'believer,' those 'Jewish' words don't mean a thing.
So, a man is known by his actions, not his words.
Ohio Mike - 17 years ago
From waging war on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, war crimes and illegal torture to bussing in armed, brown shirt thugs to town halls, the lunatic Right Wing forgets one essential fact – the American people threw them out of power.
War crimes were committed over the last 8 years and the guilty must pay, no matter what agency they worked for, no matter how high up they served. To advocate otherwise dishonor’s the Constitution, brave men and women and innocent civilians slaughtered for no reason.
TJK - 17 years ago
Hi Joseph L. Williams,
It sounds like you are saying that they are so bad at how they broke the law, it is OK.
Is that right?
It is about obeying the Law.
Fox News acknowledges what they did broke the law.
They knew they were breaking the law when they did it.
Please read the Fox News article I posted.
And all that silliness about speaking Arabic........now I know you are joking!
Billy Dickwiggler - 17 years ago
why doesn't obummer just 'COME OUT' and put a towel on his head, and bow to mecca.
Jubal Harshaw - 17 years ago
A gent made the observation that Mr. Obama and his cronies are very good at pointing fingers of blame. Pity their mommies never told them that 'when you point your finger at someone, you have 3 pointing back at you.' But, then, that's assuming that they had mommies or daddies that taught them manners.
USAFquez - 17 years ago
mriley, President Obama is not muslim, indicating you are uneducated in any facts as simple as his religion. Therefore your statement is as credible as the entire network of FOXnews, worthless, biased, and false. As for Obama be sypathetic twards Muslims, I commend him for doing so. It shows compassion for other religions and cultures. Or maybe we should just turn the cold shoulder on the rest of the world for not being a "christian nation" like us.
Ohio Mike - 17 years ago
mriley -- I still can't believe that 8 yrs after 9-11, we AMERICA has elected a muslim ====================== Please tell us what planet you spend most of your time on. To claim that President Obama is a Muslim and that Geneva Conventions are worthless makes you look foolish. Mindlessly parroting Cluster Fox talking points is no way to go through life son.
GETLOUDER - 17 years ago
I think this is obamas groups way of doing something to wreak some havoic in an Americans life especially those that are white.
FYI I am calling and emailing and mailing letters to the companies that said they woudl stop advertizing on BECKS show because COLOROFCHANGE.ORG wants them to.
Beck For President.
Dimitri - 17 years ago
Eric Holder's LAW OF DISGUST. What an amazing development in jurisprudence!
There is hardly a jury in this country, save ones in my town of NYC, and LA, that would vote to prosecute our civil servants. The same Eric Holder has quashed indictments and convictions by default of several black militants who were intimidating voters at the polls in Phila. last November. I was there. It happened.
My new moniker for the Pres. is "BO". Where are the T-shirts???
mriley - 17 years ago
I still can't believe that 8 yrs after 9-11, we AMERICA has elected a muslim to the highest office in this great country of ours. Lets not kid ourselves here Obama is a muslim sympathizer who is very dangerous to our own freedom. He warned us with his platform of change during the primary but over half of America still voted for this false prophet. I told my family and friends we need to be wary of this man back then. He has gone around the world giving an apology for Americas actions in the past. The Geneva Convention is nothing but a bogus piece of paper saying how torture should not be used in time of war - sounds good but no country abides by it. WAR IS HELL. When we start procecuting our own interragators for protecting our country we will be in dire straits AMERICA. Mark my words PS I'm proud to be able to say with my head high that I didn't vote for wicked Obama.
Ohio Mike - 17 years ago
Elijah - What this administration is doing is criminal. ============ Why does the Right Wing hate America so much that they would sacrifice the Constitution and the rule of law to protect war criminals? Why should 8 years of lawlessness go unpunished?
USAFquez - 17 years ago
If this isn't proof that FOXnews isn't a conservative ran/watched news/entertainment channel, then I don't know what is. I am in the military and I have many liberal views and I only watch Foxnews for entertainment purposes. That should be FOX's new slogan; "Fair & Balanced", "We Report. You Decide", "The Most Powerful Name in News" (WARNING: for enterainment purposes only)... about as credible as The Onion.
TJK, first, thank you for respectful posting toward differing views. It's the only way we can all learn from this. Next, no, I'm not joking. If the "ruse" was so transparent that it yielded no benefit, well then how can you claim it to be torture. Perhaps it's a torture "technique" but if it was so predictable that it didn't phase anyone, what's the big deal?
Now, let's all go back to 9/12/01. There's a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks here (and in Congress) who want to second guess heros who immediately took the reigns and did what they thought best under extreme conditions of death, destruction, and blind conditions of intelligence. If Clinton or Gore was the president at that time, you'd be posting this in Arabic. If Obama was president, you'd be apologizing to the terrorists in Arabic.
Jason - 17 years ago
Terrorism is fairly small compared to other crimes like drunk driving and murder, (both kill 10x as much as September 11) there should be no special exemptions for police and jailers just because they are "terrorism" suspects.
Dandee - 17 years ago
A question please. WHY is it so important to know everything about the past president, when we know Nothing about the present one and our future? The president has NEVER given us any information on his past. That should be one of the main things to be investigated. He has blocked any invstigation asked for to know about his past. AND it is a little late now don't you think? O.K.now you Liberalists, give it to me because I really don't give a d*mn, I still believe we should know the truth, not just what he tells us!
Elijah - 17 years ago
What this administration is doing is criminal.
Do these people care about the US or are they walking around with a chip on their shoulder and blaming the US for everything and anything?
The citizens should thank the CIA for protecting the country and putting their lives on the line so we can live safely.
Dandee - 17 years ago
JOLynn
IF he has time to read all those pages, he should be MANDATED to read the entire HB3200. I'm not really sure if he would understand it, but hey, everyone says he is smart and after all he is a Harvard graduate, so he should be able to read and understand all that bull. Then MAYBE he could explain the entire thing, not just what he wants us to know, but all that is written in the plan. Bet he wouldn't want us ALL to know the entire plan!!
Jon - 17 years ago
If the last administration feels they were within the law they should welcome any vetting of alleged abuse. I suspect the most vocal of detractors (RE:Cheney) may have the most to hide.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Ben Franklin
Kevin - 17 years ago
CIA interrogators should be given our gratitude for protecting the lives of us and even the lives of sorry liberal leftists.
Kevin - 17 years ago
How many innocent American lives is the left willing to sacrifice so that a Radical Ilamic Extremist Terrorist does not experience discomfort?
Clif - 17 years ago
Prisoners of war NOT!, They do not wear a uniform, they the terrorist are just that, Geneva convention that applies to these animals is they can be shot as spies!
Presient Obama is an enemy to freedom, period.
Ohio Mike - 17 years ago
After 8 years of lawlessness, Americans voted for the rule of law. War crimes were committed over the last 8 years and the guilty must pay, no matter what agency they worked for, no matter how high up they served. To advocate otherwise dishonor’s the Constitution and the brave men and women sent to their deaths based on lies.
TJK - 17 years ago
Joseph L Williams,
I assume you are joking, but in case you are not, here is this story as it appears on FOX NEWS:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/25/cheney-republicans-blast-interrogation-probe/
Read the whole thing......
Here is an excerpt:
"The report described at least one mock execution, which would also violate U.S. anti-torture laws. To terrify one detainee, interrogators pretended to execute the prisoner in a nearby room. A senior officer said it was a transparent ruse that yielded no benefit."
MIke - 17 years ago
Obama such be going after the black panthers that were at the voitng polls not american that are doing good for the USA..Change we can Believe in.... Ha Right
TJK - 17 years ago
Hi Don,
I guess we should leave our children a country based on the LAW.
Eric Holder sets free the "new" Black Panthers after they were intimidating "people of white color" in front of the polling places while wielding a stick (possession of the stick or club alone would be a felony under California law. I'm sorry I don't know Pennsylvania law). Prosecutors under racist Holder wanted to continue with the case and were utterly surprised at his decision.
However, now Holder wants to RE-investigate and seek prosecution of CIA agents who used techniques that are documented to be "absolutely successful." This follows Obama letting the FBI read the detainees their rights. Is there something backwards here? In this process, Obama is playing "good cop/bad cop" as he tries to say "I don't want to revisit the past" (even though he constantly blames President Bush for anything still not going right), but that's just a ruse.
Care to talk of torture? Water boarding: not nearly as fearful as surfing; agent playing dead.. one of the critics of the CIA said it was a "transparent ruse" which means it wasn't torture. Maybe we should be cutting their heads off with dull knives...? That seems to be acceptable both to Democrats and the media.
Obama has been nothing but a liar from day one and 64,000,000 blind sheep voted for the pied piper. To be fair, they weren't all blind; some were racists, some were communists (two of which are now Czars... a position they apparently couldn't achieve in Russia), and naturally some were "militant Muslems." the Democrats are looking for more such support from the illegal aliens. Yes, the SEIU held a "gathering" last week in SF where the mayor there and former Gov-and-wannabe-gov-again Jerry Brown BOTH said they want to give illegals the right to vote.
Obama's speeches are early Hitler (circa 1932), just fluffed out a little. Obama's actions are treasonous. He's bankrupting the country, has put enemies of this nation in Czar and other important positions, jeopardizing our sailors and soldiers during time of war and finally, exposing innocent Americans to future acts of terror.
Don - 17 years ago
The world and the Democrats are trying to separate us. We are all Americans. Ask any family member from 911 or Pearl Harbor or many of the hatred victims in Iraq if intelligence is important. Our current leaders are doing their best to FUEL HATRED and destroy us all.
This nation needs to pull together and fight for truth and justice and FREEDOM. The party who that does that will be the one that protects and secures out future. What do we want to leave our children?????
Sherri - 17 years ago
I really don't see much of a difference between staging and execution for a terrorist to see and subjecting a teen to a prisoner telling that teen what could happen to them in prison in the Scared Straight program. If it works, why not?
JoLynn - 17 years ago
BTW, what good do all these polls do anyway, the IDIOTS that are taking over our country obviously don't give a rats ass about what we care about anyway, they have an agenda that they are going to stick with. I truly think he is in office to ruin this country, make his stamp on f__ing it up and has no intention on running for a second office.
Ohio Mike - 17 years ago
From making war on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, war crimes and illegal torture to bussing in armed, brown shirt thugs to town halls, the lunatic Right Wing forgets one essential fact – the American threw them out of power. War crimes were committed over the last 8 years and the guilty must pay, no matter what agency they worked for, no matter how high up they served. To advocate otherwise dishonor’s the Constitution and the brave men and women slaughtered for no reason.
JOLynn - 17 years ago
Honestly Duh-Bama, when is the sh!t going to end??? Maybe if this administration focused on what they really need to get accomplished in this country instead of pondering on how they can keep blaming the Bush admin they could make this the great place it was to live before Barak O'Crock took office.
CBS and their man crush was reporting on what his "readings" are while of vacation, ooohhhh ahhhh it came to 2,300 pages, hmmm I wonder if he has read the Healthcare bill that he keep lying about to his hand picked townhalls.
TJK - 17 years ago
Hi WillV...
Have you read other comments here?
Peole throwing the words Nazi/Communist around like they know what they mean?
And you say I am nutted up?
There are new documents that go beyond what was known before.
All I am saying is that America can live up to its known values......
America is a moral, honorable country.
We ARE that STRONG.
As Sen. McCain said "America Does Not Torture".....if they did torture, then stand up like a man and take the heat.
(CBS/AP) With just two weeks of training, or about half the time it takes to become a truck driver, the CIA certified its spies as interrogation experts after 9/11 and handed them the keys to the most coercive tactics in the agency's arsenal.
It was a haphazard process, cobbled together in the months following the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington by an agency that had never been in the interrogation business. The result was a patchwork program in which rules kept shifting and the goals often were unclear.
"At times, the interrogators went too far, even beyond the wide latitude they were given under the Bush administration's flexible guidelines, according to newly unclassified documents released Monday. Interrogators took the simulated drowning technique of waterboarding beyond what was authorized. Mock executions were held. Family members were threatened. There were hints of rape"
JP - 17 years ago
To those people whom think Obama is running this country, guess again he is a puppet for people like George Soros,Raum Emmanuel David Axelrod and other socialist. People say Obama should be a leader,this an impossibility for he does not know what leader is.
Stewie - 17 years ago
Another character trait fo THE GREAT APPEASER! Sure am glad he wasn't in office at either Pearl Harbor or 9/11! If he had we might be speaking Japanese or learning Arabic!!
Frits Hoekstra - 17 years ago
Cheney and Bush should both we put in jail. They're a bunch of hilbilly criminals. Why doesn't Cheney just shut up or have another heart attack!
He's due for one....this one fatal I hope.
WillV - 17 years ago
TJK Dude this is not torture, this is intel. gathering, torture is much worse, and the U.S. has been useing this kind of persuasion for hundreds of yrs. so don't get all nuted up over this light stuff.
Arnold - 17 years ago
If he wants to keep looking back, perhaps Eric Holder should concentrate on correcting the injustices done to the many AMERICAN VICTIMS of Pan American Flight 103 by Abdel Baset al-Megrahi instead of focusing on treatment of the heartless terrorists who would do anything to destroy our country.
P.S. - 17 years ago
How ironic that people who have been protected by our courageous military, CIA, FBI, and local Police try to punish them. Too bad these armchair elitist can't be put out there on the frontlines for an attitude adjustment. Thank you to ALL who protect us!
richter - 17 years ago
All the "bleeding heart liberal bed-wetting pinko-commie Bush/Chenney haters" led by Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman and Rachael Maddow should get on their hands and knees and kiss the feet of every soldier who "stands the wall" every day to protect their sorry a**es from people who wouldn't think twice about cutting their ugly heads off.
Carol - 17 years ago
The reason for dredging up this investigation is that it is part of the smoke screen to hide other more important issues that are being forced on us right now in hopes (hope and change?) we won't notice all the other very frightening things that this administration is pushing. Do more research on who, what, why, when & how, don't just leave it to your neighbors and journalists.
Melvin Bruenger II - 17 years ago
Is there anything else the Obama Administration can do to help out the enemy win the GWOT, excuse me, Man Made Disaster, in SWA? Last time I checked, helping the enemy during armed conflict is treason.
Kent - 17 years ago
All the idiots that voted for this socialist have caused great harm to this nation. "A Czar in every pot"......What a joke, but who's laughing?
William Villines - 17 years ago
Lets see here, our interogaters got the detainee's wet, held them under a tad(discomfort), Lied to them made them think another murderer had got shot. HMM a head trip, no harm, got the intel.saved our Boys.,
Well, thats so mean! All they did was kill untold inocence,our Military,UN military, and cut the heads off a few people, poor Ladds. Lets bring them home so we can protect our Presidents fellow Muslims, or no maybe an Island in the pacific so they can get ZEN again For Pete sake people WAKE UP!!!!!
kathy - 17 years ago
they need to move on-stop tearing down the very things that kept our nation strong.If they are trying to make history , they will -they are bringing this country down beyond repair and recognition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Martha - 17 years ago
This has been investigated and re-investigated. One person is in prison. To revisit this is a waste of time and money. Obama went into office on the back of hate for Bush and I doubt people even remember why they hated him but with his failing administration Obama needs to try to recreate that hate so that he can begin his campaign yet again. This is simply to keep people from focusing on health care and 11 trillion dollars.
dingo - 17 years ago
This is what happens when leno,s jaywalkers turn out to vote
Jim - 17 years ago
This is right out of the Clinton play book. Misdirect, take the focus off a failing health care program so it can get pushed through anyway, take the focus off the failing Obama economy.
Richard - 17 years ago
Not that it would do any good, but Fox ought to send these comments to BSNBC B@#% S@#$ Nothing But Crap!!
Stan - 17 years ago
How can we be expected to respect a president who is willing to bow down to the Arabian heads of state and shows more respect for them than he does for the American peoples safety and security? This administrations agenda is to undermine America through whatever means and make us another 2nd, if not 3rd world country!
The Obamaites want us to become the USSSA (United Soviet Socialist States of America)! This from a man who will NOT provide his birth certificate, who will NOT help his own brother who lives in poverty, who will NOT say where his monies to attend one of the most expensive schools in the US came from, who comes from an area notorious for crooked politics, who IS willing to sellout the very people who have kept terriorists at bay since 9-11-01
Bradley - 17 years ago
This administration has a number of issues to find solutions to, why doesn't it pick a few and solve them first before trying to put blame on those who are doing their duties for America. Of course abusing prisoners is wrong. But there is a stark contrast in definition when it comes to interrogation and abuse. Also a stark contrast in these words: prisoner of war, terrorist, former terrorist, leads, leaks, jihad, 9/11, caves, hiding, army, marines, bush, obama, lynch, peace. hm.
Ben Kincaid - 17 years ago
Eric Holder should be repremanded by the President for failing to follow his stated wishes. Nothing good can be derived from looking back.
TJK - 17 years ago
To Deanna Zohar,
I agree that it is not a popular thing to do. That just adds to why it is the right thing to do. John McCain, who knows better than anyone about Torture said:
"AMERICA DOES NOT TORTURE."
If we did, for whatever reason, those who tortured and those that commanded it be done need to be held ACCOUNTABLE.
It is the only way that we, as a UNITED STATES can maintain our integrity.
This is a country of LAWS, not a country where the "End Justify the Means".
George - 17 years ago
Just another stupid "Power Play" but the idiot Eric Holder to gain what? These cases have been reviewed already and now he wants to "review" them again. Talk about a Witch Hunt. I think Obama needs to get control of his WHOLE Administration as it is clear he is NOT in charge!! Wake up Obama and get your team in line, they work for you! It's also a good way to draw some of the heat away from Health Care/Insurance Reform however the new deficit numbers of $2 Trillion more won't help! Waiting for the change I can believe in.
Richard - 17 years ago
How much longer will the American people have to put up with this socialist/communist administration? Its so very obvious what King B.Hussein's O-Bummer's agenda is--destroy America.
darlita jockson - 17 years ago
WOW!!! Look at those comments!!! Now that's a poll of Fox fans, for sure!!!! LOL!!
TJK - 17 years ago
Below is what Harry Truman had to say about America.
I wish the conservative movement of today would try this sometime.
“America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination, and unbeatable determination to do the job at hand.”
~ Harry S Truman
William F. Buckley is rolling in his grave over the spew that comes out of the conservative movement in America today.
Carol - 17 years ago
we should do WHATEVER it takes to get info from these ppl that r trying to harm this great nation and its ppl. do u think they care about how they treat use?? NOT!!!!! I feel this is one of many things that we do not need to know. Now the terrorist can come and do what they what because they fell they have all the rights that we do and that just wrong. WAY TO GO OBAMA. why don't u go out and fight with our troops and see how it really is.
If Eric Holder has his way, why would anybody work for the CIA? These people should be praised for saving our country and keeping us SAFE!! This administration is going backwards. I, for one, am in favor of enhanced interrogation as I assume were most of us Americans after attacks on US soil as well as on our other institutions.
Alex7 - 17 years ago
While we are at it, why don't we round up the remaining WWII Vets and try them for murdering the Nazis? Oh, No! Wait a minute. We can't do that. Roosevelt and Truman (the presidents that presided over WWII) were both Democrats. Shucks!
Tim McCann - 17 years ago
Unfortunatly most of the survivors of the Natzi Prision camps like my uncle who was captured in the Anzio landing in Italy are not alive to tell how they were six foot one and carried 210 pounds when captured and 96 pounds when they escaped later. They would tell people that if they caught a rat or mouse they would have a banquit. Many were taken to the woods and assinated to make sure the camp guards would have enough to eat. The seldon read accounts of the Bataan Death Morch conduced by the Japaneese where thousands of American Souldies died for lack of water in the 900 mile march is somehow forgotten. Vietnam captives were abused from day one as were the Korean War captives. John McCAin has made a film about this but does not talk to the American people about the abusive treatment of prisioners in Vietnam. This nonsense about putting the CIA on some type of an inqusitions is again like they did in the Clinton Administration makes my life for dangerous. Soon the Names of all CIA Operatives will be published world wide like they were in the Clinton Administration. People who are captured in these situations do not respond to handing them a tulip. My uncles were asked to fight against communism in Korea and I was asked to fight against communism is Vietnan. Most of us voted Democratic all of our lives because we believe in the middle class. I do not believe the current administration is socialist. I clearly believe that the powers in this administration are communists.
Tim - 17 years ago
Yet another ditractionary technique by the libs to keep our minds off of healthcare
Phil422 - 17 years ago
This administration continues it's destruction of America. Good luck getting people to put their lives on the line to HELP us. This will only weaken us and our allies will no longer want to help for fear of some left wing idiot lawyer hauling them in to court to prosecute a patriot.
Every time you have no answers you turn attention back to the Bush admin.
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN MESS THAT YOU CREATED.
WE ARE AT WAR! TURN YOUR ENERGY ON OUR ENEMIES INSTEAD OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY YOU MORON!
lourae - 17 years ago
I am an american who believes that inorder to get information out of someone we can't just slap thier hand, we have to force it out. The terrorist wont hand us the information, they dont like us!!
Donald J. Biron - 17 years ago
Obama has been in the White House only a very short time and already has led our country down the tubes, financially and otherwise. Why do we accept his placement of Chicago thugs at the helm of many departments? And why in the world has he created so many artificial titles "czars" who are not responsible to anyone but the president. This is sort of a reminder of Germany in the 1930s, such as the Brown Shirts.
Roland - 17 years ago
RL...Bush had good reason to partially blame Clinton for 9/11. If memory serves, Sudan offered Bin Laden's head on a platter in the late 1990's and Clinton's Justice Department advised him to let him go!!! I believe that the nit-wit Holder was the #2 man in Clinton adminstration justice department. It would seem that Holder is more interested in protecting terrorist's "rights" than he is in protecting our country.
Freedoms lost - 17 years ago
Another distration from this pathetic Obama fools in hopes that the public will stop looking at the damage they are doing to our country, economy, loss of jobs and their robbing and looting! Not going to work!
Freeze the theft Stimulus bills that were not for job creation but to pay off political hacks. Where's the money? Where are those jobs, jobs, jobs? Miserable, corrupt thieves!
Once again, Obama's goons are behaving STUPIDLY!
David Earley - 17 years ago
The CIA has protected us for many years. Let them do what ever is necessary to protect us. This country need to take some lessons from the TV series "24". Things are only going to get worse. This administration is only doing the blame game again. If the enemy is not going to play by the rules, why should we? At my age, there is no such thing as a fair fight. I am out to survive!
Honestly, I'm not sure. I do think it should be case by case.
On a proximate level, if in fact the law *at the time* was not broken (i.e. no prosecution under ipso facto laws or policies instituted in the last 200 days), then there is no case. If the law was broken, then it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the governing US law. Period.
It is the ipso facto issue that I hesitate on as I am concerned that it will be neglected if the Democrats get their way. If the investigation is to be done, it has to be without question absolutely impartial. How will that honestly be done given the ongoing visceral partisanship of the past 8 years?
If a crime was in fact committed, a "we all just need to move on" mentality is exactly what will erode our justice system and our own rights.
I hardly have any hair left from pulling it out everytime I hear how this stupid administration is handling our country! Now Obama/Holder want to investigate the CIA! LEAVE THE CIA ALONE AND LET THEM DO THEIR JOB! No one is telling you Obama/Holder how to do your job so BACK OFF! YOU WERE NEVER ASKED TO CONTROL everything in the USA! You MUCK UP the CIA and you are ENDANGERING ALL OF US! Obama says we must move forward but all he wants to do is look in the past so see how the CIA did its job ? Don't worry about the past, work on the ECONOMY, stupid!
Actually Richard Saloman this is what FOX NEWS reported on the OBAMA adminstrations reaction to the Scottish Govt.'s decision to release Abdel Baset al-Megrahi
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,540985,00.html
"The Obama administration expressed deep disappointment Thursday over the release of the Lockerbie bomber, saying the decision to let the Libyan terrorist go home was made by the Scottish government in spite of "extensive" appeals from U.S. officials."
1. Agree with your statement If there is a problem with the interrogations it should be taken up with the people giving the orders"
2. I disagree. It has EVERYTHING to do with the LAW.
TJK,
No problem on the question, but I hope you see my point.
I must agree that you're correct, to a degree. Your side cornered the market for decades, but now that the right has some zealots coming out, it's blown way overboard by Obama's State-run media.
Worse, with relatively peaceful town Halls, both Democrats and their media are calling all these people violent right-wing extremists. During the "Tea Party" MSNBC and CBS both tried to disparage the attendees with the same titles, yet nary a parking ticket was given to those protesters.
So, I think what your seeing is a major frustration building up on my side due to the fact that everything they do is attacked by the Democrats and media, their elected officials' refusal to answer questions, and basically that the last election didn't bring in the kind of change that was promised.
I agree with Karen Lehmann and Debbie.
It is time to move on.
Please, Let's move past FEAR and FEAR-MONGERING and to move on to civil, intelligent discourse, whether it about this topic or healthcare.
"America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination, and unbeatable determination to do the job at hand.”
~ Harry S Truman
Please move past terms like "Death Panels"......and officials who are supposed to be responsible people using those terms.
America can do better.
Conservatives can be a part of that, if that can get past this Nazi, Socialist, Muslim, birth certificate rhetoric they have taken up lately.
In MY opinion 'the administration' knows they are 'one termers' and are willing to 'go through hell and high water' to enact as much of their left wing radical agenda as is possible. I would think that the electorate is a lot more savy to Obamas plans and ideals now that he's unmasked his true reason for seeking high office. The past election was skewed by the fact that he received a hugh 'sympathy vote' and also those who just wanted to vote in the afirmative for the first African American as President of the United States. The more radical 'czars' he appointes the more his true agenda is exposed to the votes he picked up from the 'fringe voters'!. His time is limited and he knows it. I fervently hope that we can survive the next three and a half years.......and that in the next election cycle that BOTH give us someone of quality to vote for!
Does anyone remember we executed Japanese soldiers for water boarding? So it is ok for us to do it but we cant be held to the same standards? This is shameful in my opinion and im sure i will have people disagree. But torture is torture and just because it happens to be a Muslim it doesn't give us the right. BTW if a Middle Eastern man had shown up at a Bush or Obama rally with an assault rifle do you think he would have been aloud to walk around??? I Dont Think So. This country happens to be racist.
This outrage is all part of the misinformation that is constantly being released by the Obama administration.
It has nothing at all to do with enforcing the law or the Constitution.
It is an obvious attempt by the Decorates to draw attention away from the fact that the President is very weak on national defense as seen by his ignoring the release of the murderer who killed 270 innocent people. How many innocents were killed by the CIA interrogators? All they did was there
sworn duty to do there jobs and obey there orders. If there is a problem with the interrogations it should be taken up with the people giving the orders.
Who in my opinion by the way were doing there honest best to protect not only Americans but innocent people all over the world.
This investigation is just a pile of political bull.
I'm sure that after testing the water and concocting an "opinion" Mr. Obama will have a Politically expedient statement on the matter of the release of the mass murderer,Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al-Megrahi .
Richard Salomon
Let's just move on. Another diversion to take eyes from the proposed healthcare travesty
Here is the actual Armed Services Committee study(19 pages).
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf
Committee Chairman Carl Levin and Ranking Member John McCain.
Here is the Executive Summary, with comments from General Petraeus.
Executive Summary
“What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight… is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also all human beings”
-- General David Petraeus
May 10, 2007
So they had a couple of guns pointed at them and a drill turned on. Big deal, where I grew up in San Diego that is common. Welcome to the Wild West. Oh yeah I live here in Hawaii now and we love water-boarding!
Let it go........
I agree Malcolm. Torture is wrong!!
Hi Joseph L. Williams,
I honestly did not know who you were talking about.
That is why I asked the question.
I do believe your comment about all of us speaking Arabic is extraordinarily silly. That kind of talk detracts from this country.
Conservatives are giving a bad-name to WILD-EYED radical with these kinds of comments. That used to be the territory of people on my side of the aisle.
But, man, your side of the aisle is loaded up with them, starting with that ninny Glenn Beck.It is not about what he says so much as the inflammatory way he has to say it for the sake of entertainment, I guess....bug his eyes out, screaming, making those bizarre facial expressions...WHEW!
Crazy Right Wingers
2009-08-25 19:20:45 ET
It's very simple - commit a war crime, go to jail.
PLEASE 'DEFINE' WAR CRIME ! ! ! that is
IF you can
ROFL.. yeah, he is flamboyant and his overzealous style isn't my cup of tea. Still, I wonder if I had a profession where I constantly had people spewing Michael Moore's lies-taken-as-Gospel, I'd get pretty frustrated, too. Honestly, I enjoy listening to Bill O'Reilly much more than anyone else.
As for others with "conservative" views here espousing absolutes and debasing themselves with name-calling, they are just as guilty.
However, let me ask you a question: every issue seems to be a divide between liberals and conservatives, the extreme left and the extreme right. what happened to groups being in the middle and being only slightly left or right of the center?
Let me get this straight now. Since we can not interrogate someone using the methods that we used to save thousands of american lives. What would happen if someone was to storm the white house, say for instance the garbage man just wanting to get rid of the trash. Wake up America. Congress and the senate, along with the executive branch propose the laws and then tell us they can not do anything about them. This is a scare tactic and an effort to get you focused on something else besdies health care reform. They are looking for a way to go behind your backagain. Next time we win a war and the Troops come home we should send them to DC to win another one. Obama's present objective overseas is to demoralize our troops and also us here at home. We have good men out there. Why dont they give them what they need and untie their hands.
The fact that this is even a question is ridiculous. Should we investigate something we might have done wrong, possibly criminal? What kind of a country have we become that we have to ask ourselves. It's not partisan politics, it's right and wrong. It doesn't matter how bad the other side is. What matters is what we let ourselves become, what boundaries we decide are flexible enough based on the enemy we face. We are only righteous when we hold ourselves to the same standards we demand of others. It's not a matter of "R" and "D", it's a matter of destroying what we stand for in the pursuit of it's preservation.
All those so concerned about the US being labeled "a Christian nation" need to go back and read the sermon on the mount. The part where Jesus says to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" in particular.
Let the truth be known, no matter who it damns. If war crimes were committed, let just justice be served. Nazi war criminals had to pay for their actions, so should any US citizen guilty of war crimes.
Regarding Obama apologizing for American's actions, he is simply speaking the truth. Along with that though, he also asked Europe to admit and cease it's own arrogance towards the US; in an effort to bring about unity between our regions. Nothing wrong with that. That's what a president is supposed to do.
I used to thing the left was a bunch of whiners, but damn; you right wingers take the cake. A majority of the popular vote elected Obama as our COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. Deal with it already.
What has happen to the United States of America? A country that set the standards for the rest of the World. A nation of Christian (VALUES) the most power nation in the world, let these sick terrorist (murders) We do not need to drop to that level!!
TKJ, since you missed it...
I didn't say anyone was attacking "me" at least as an individual. I did say that they are attacking those with differing opinions. So, when someone chooses a name like "crazy right wingers" or asking a poster if he's giving a name to voices in his head, I believe that's demeaning. Neither you, nor I, have had to sink to that level while debating this issue.
Listen to this guy about 3 minutes in:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=glenn%20beck%20paula%20zahn%20video&safe=strict&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#
Is this the voice of Conservatives in this country now???
How sad.
Is there another William F. Buckley out there?
Or is the guy posting as BILLY DICKWIGLER now represent conservative thought?
I don't understand how you can change the laws and then go back and punish someone. I know this is a bit unrealistic, but it would be like changing the speed limit and then giving everyone a ticket for speeding last year....doesn't make sense. If you operate under one set of laws and regulations, that is how you operate. If they change, then that change takes place at the time of change.
Hi Joseph L. WIlliams,
1. Who are you talking about as "Intelligent Individuals"
2. Are those individuals attackin you?
3. Do you sincerely believe that if those involved did not break the LAW, we would all be speaking Arabic right now?
Ah, now we have two very intelligent individuals immediately and directly attacking those whose opinions are different. I bet you guys come right from the White House. Probably a Czar, even!
Whatever you are, you're both definitely cowardly and the reason for disunity.
OK, all you macho "do whatever it takes" types: where is the limit? Or because they're non-combatants and not subject to the laws of war, is there no limit? Can our servicemen and women enthusiastically rape captives? Should they kill children, cut them up with chainsaws while still alive, castrate children of captives. If it all allowed and in the name of protecting America, let's get creative about it!
But if you accept there is a limit, then try to define it. It's pretty hard to do.
KEEP GITMO OPEN.....Send Bush and Chenney there!
I have no problem with these bad guys being tortured, if it saves the lives of millions of Americans. Have we forgotten that these guys don't adhere to the Geneva Convention and will kill us in a heartbeat? If torture saves lives, then job well done! The Obama adminstration is bringing this up again as a diversion from the true issues of today, their health care reform fiasco.
we cannt torture alittle ,but they kill us all day long..........some folks need to wake up......................
It's very simple - commit a war crime, go to jail.
Billy Dickwiggler "why doesn't obummer just 'COME OUT' and put a towel on his head, and bow to mecca." --------------- Just who is this obummer? Is it one of your imaginary friends? A name you gave to one of the voices in your head?
Jason: actually, annual murders nationally, are about four times what happened in only one day, 9/11. Drunk drivers kill about five times annually what has been killed in one day. So there are several differences that you need to look at;
1. Drunk drivers and most murderers don't actively recruit others to join their "cause." They certainly don't recruit as a means of taking down entire societies. Militant Muslem Terrorists do exactly that. Nor do most drunk drivers and murderers specifically target large groups of civilians as a means to further their cause.
2. The "terrorists" or more Obama-like, "detainees" (remember, Obama says there are no more terrorists.. only enemy combatants), have been found for the most part on battlefields; Obama Bin Ladin, I mean Osama bin Ladin (sorry, typo), who group (Al Qaeda) has declared war on the US, but in have NOT abided by any rules of war neither in print nor in practice.
3. The ONLY reason there has not been so many more Americans murdered by terrorists is the fact that those heroes I previously mentioned took control and did what they deemed necessary under extreme conditions. We gained the intel and created a location to fight them that was NOT on US soil.
Hence, it's not so "little" a "crime."
Why when we are facing TRILLIONS of dollars in deficit are we even considering this? REALLY Obama is this all you have to concentrate on? Do you think this country can keep floating while you're "helping" it with all this BS? Funny how you want to look into this now, but when Bush wanted to look into Clinton letting Osama go the democrats were outraged, "why look at the past" they said, "you can't change it?" So, now I'm asking the same!
I say President Obama & Congress get your heads out of your asses and do something that's really going to matter.
A Christian (and Jew) is taught Lev 19:11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
The Koran has a completely different take on the subject. You see, if you aren't the correct 'flavor' of 'believer,' those 'Jewish' words don't mean a thing.
So, a man is known by his actions, not his words.
From waging war on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, war crimes and illegal torture to bussing in armed, brown shirt thugs to town halls, the lunatic Right Wing forgets one essential fact – the American people threw them out of power.
War crimes were committed over the last 8 years and the guilty must pay, no matter what agency they worked for, no matter how high up they served. To advocate otherwise dishonor’s the Constitution, brave men and women and innocent civilians slaughtered for no reason.
Hi Joseph L. Williams,
It sounds like you are saying that they are so bad at how they broke the law, it is OK.
Is that right?
It is about obeying the Law.
Fox News acknowledges what they did broke the law.
They knew they were breaking the law when they did it.
Please read the Fox News article I posted.
And all that silliness about speaking Arabic........now I know you are joking!
why doesn't obummer just 'COME OUT' and put a towel on his head, and bow to mecca.
A gent made the observation that Mr. Obama and his cronies are very good at pointing fingers of blame. Pity their mommies never told them that 'when you point your finger at someone, you have 3 pointing back at you.' But, then, that's assuming that they had mommies or daddies that taught them manners.
mriley, President Obama is not muslim, indicating you are uneducated in any facts as simple as his religion. Therefore your statement is as credible as the entire network of FOXnews, worthless, biased, and false. As for Obama be sypathetic twards Muslims, I commend him for doing so. It shows compassion for other religions and cultures. Or maybe we should just turn the cold shoulder on the rest of the world for not being a "christian nation" like us.
mriley -- I still can't believe that 8 yrs after 9-11, we AMERICA has elected a muslim ====================== Please tell us what planet you spend most of your time on. To claim that President Obama is a Muslim and that Geneva Conventions are worthless makes you look foolish. Mindlessly parroting Cluster Fox talking points is no way to go through life son.
I think this is obamas groups way of doing something to wreak some havoic in an Americans life especially those that are white.
FYI I am calling and emailing and mailing letters to the companies that said they woudl stop advertizing on BECKS show because COLOROFCHANGE.ORG wants them to.
Beck For President.
Eric Holder's LAW OF DISGUST. What an amazing development in jurisprudence!
There is hardly a jury in this country, save ones in my town of NYC, and LA, that would vote to prosecute our civil servants. The same Eric Holder has quashed indictments and convictions by default of several black militants who were intimidating voters at the polls in Phila. last November. I was there. It happened.
My new moniker for the Pres. is "BO". Where are the T-shirts???
I still can't believe that 8 yrs after 9-11, we AMERICA has elected a muslim to the highest office in this great country of ours. Lets not kid ourselves here Obama is a muslim sympathizer who is very dangerous to our own freedom. He warned us with his platform of change during the primary but over half of America still voted for this false prophet. I told my family and friends we need to be wary of this man back then. He has gone around the world giving an apology for Americas actions in the past. The Geneva Convention is nothing but a bogus piece of paper saying how torture should not be used in time of war - sounds good but no country abides by it. WAR IS HELL. When we start procecuting our own interragators for protecting our country we will be in dire straits AMERICA. Mark my words PS I'm proud to be able to say with my head high that I didn't vote for wicked Obama.
Elijah - What this administration is doing is criminal. ============ Why does the Right Wing hate America so much that they would sacrifice the Constitution and the rule of law to protect war criminals? Why should 8 years of lawlessness go unpunished?
If this isn't proof that FOXnews isn't a conservative ran/watched news/entertainment channel, then I don't know what is. I am in the military and I have many liberal views and I only watch Foxnews for entertainment purposes. That should be FOX's new slogan; "Fair & Balanced", "We Report. You Decide", "The Most Powerful Name in News" (WARNING: for enterainment purposes only)... about as credible as The Onion.
Sherri, you're absolutely right.
TJK, first, thank you for respectful posting toward differing views. It's the only way we can all learn from this. Next, no, I'm not joking. If the "ruse" was so transparent that it yielded no benefit, well then how can you claim it to be torture. Perhaps it's a torture "technique" but if it was so predictable that it didn't phase anyone, what's the big deal?
Now, let's all go back to 9/12/01. There's a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks here (and in Congress) who want to second guess heros who immediately took the reigns and did what they thought best under extreme conditions of death, destruction, and blind conditions of intelligence. If Clinton or Gore was the president at that time, you'd be posting this in Arabic. If Obama was president, you'd be apologizing to the terrorists in Arabic.
Terrorism is fairly small compared to other crimes like drunk driving and murder, (both kill 10x as much as September 11) there should be no special exemptions for police and jailers just because they are "terrorism" suspects.
A question please. WHY is it so important to know everything about the past president, when we know Nothing about the present one and our future? The president has NEVER given us any information on his past. That should be one of the main things to be investigated. He has blocked any invstigation asked for to know about his past. AND it is a little late now don't you think? O.K.now you Liberalists, give it to me because I really don't give a d*mn, I still believe we should know the truth, not just what he tells us!
What this administration is doing is criminal.
Do these people care about the US or are they walking around with a chip on their shoulder and blaming the US for everything and anything?
The citizens should thank the CIA for protecting the country and putting their lives on the line so we can live safely.
JOLynn
IF he has time to read all those pages, he should be MANDATED to read the entire HB3200. I'm not really sure if he would understand it, but hey, everyone says he is smart and after all he is a Harvard graduate, so he should be able to read and understand all that bull. Then MAYBE he could explain the entire thing, not just what he wants us to know, but all that is written in the plan. Bet he wouldn't want us ALL to know the entire plan!!
If the last administration feels they were within the law they should welcome any vetting of alleged abuse. I suspect the most vocal of detractors (RE:Cheney) may have the most to hide.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Ben Franklin
CIA interrogators should be given our gratitude for protecting the lives of us and even the lives of sorry liberal leftists.
How many innocent American lives is the left willing to sacrifice so that a Radical Ilamic Extremist Terrorist does not experience discomfort?
Prisoners of war NOT!, They do not wear a uniform, they the terrorist are just that, Geneva convention that applies to these animals is they can be shot as spies!
Presient Obama is an enemy to freedom, period.
After 8 years of lawlessness, Americans voted for the rule of law. War crimes were committed over the last 8 years and the guilty must pay, no matter what agency they worked for, no matter how high up they served. To advocate otherwise dishonor’s the Constitution and the brave men and women sent to their deaths based on lies.
Joseph L Williams,
I assume you are joking, but in case you are not, here is this story as it appears on FOX NEWS:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/25/cheney-republicans-blast-interrogation-probe/
Read the whole thing......
Here is an excerpt:
"The report described at least one mock execution, which would also violate U.S. anti-torture laws. To terrify one detainee, interrogators pretended to execute the prisoner in a nearby room. A senior officer said it was a transparent ruse that yielded no benefit."
Obama such be going after the black panthers that were at the voitng polls not american that are doing good for the USA..Change we can Believe in.... Ha Right
Hi Don,
I guess we should leave our children a country based on the LAW.
Eric Holder sets free the "new" Black Panthers after they were intimidating "people of white color" in front of the polling places while wielding a stick (possession of the stick or club alone would be a felony under California law. I'm sorry I don't know Pennsylvania law). Prosecutors under racist Holder wanted to continue with the case and were utterly surprised at his decision.
However, now Holder wants to RE-investigate and seek prosecution of CIA agents who used techniques that are documented to be "absolutely successful." This follows Obama letting the FBI read the detainees their rights. Is there something backwards here? In this process, Obama is playing "good cop/bad cop" as he tries to say "I don't want to revisit the past" (even though he constantly blames President Bush for anything still not going right), but that's just a ruse.
Care to talk of torture? Water boarding: not nearly as fearful as surfing; agent playing dead.. one of the critics of the CIA said it was a "transparent ruse" which means it wasn't torture. Maybe we should be cutting their heads off with dull knives...? That seems to be acceptable both to Democrats and the media.
Obama has been nothing but a liar from day one and 64,000,000 blind sheep voted for the pied piper. To be fair, they weren't all blind; some were racists, some were communists (two of which are now Czars... a position they apparently couldn't achieve in Russia), and naturally some were "militant Muslems." the Democrats are looking for more such support from the illegal aliens. Yes, the SEIU held a "gathering" last week in SF where the mayor there and former Gov-and-wannabe-gov-again Jerry Brown BOTH said they want to give illegals the right to vote.
Obama's speeches are early Hitler (circa 1932), just fluffed out a little. Obama's actions are treasonous. He's bankrupting the country, has put enemies of this nation in Czar and other important positions, jeopardizing our sailors and soldiers during time of war and finally, exposing innocent Americans to future acts of terror.
The world and the Democrats are trying to separate us. We are all Americans. Ask any family member from 911 or Pearl Harbor or many of the hatred victims in Iraq if intelligence is important. Our current leaders are doing their best to FUEL HATRED and destroy us all.
This nation needs to pull together and fight for truth and justice and FREEDOM. The party who that does that will be the one that protects and secures out future. What do we want to leave our children?????
I really don't see much of a difference between staging and execution for a terrorist to see and subjecting a teen to a prisoner telling that teen what could happen to them in prison in the Scared Straight program. If it works, why not?
BTW, what good do all these polls do anyway, the IDIOTS that are taking over our country obviously don't give a rats ass about what we care about anyway, they have an agenda that they are going to stick with. I truly think he is in office to ruin this country, make his stamp on f__ing it up and has no intention on running for a second office.
From making war on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, war crimes and illegal torture to bussing in armed, brown shirt thugs to town halls, the lunatic Right Wing forgets one essential fact – the American threw them out of power. War crimes were committed over the last 8 years and the guilty must pay, no matter what agency they worked for, no matter how high up they served. To advocate otherwise dishonor’s the Constitution and the brave men and women slaughtered for no reason.
Honestly Duh-Bama, when is the sh!t going to end??? Maybe if this administration focused on what they really need to get accomplished in this country instead of pondering on how they can keep blaming the Bush admin they could make this the great place it was to live before Barak O'Crock took office.
CBS and their man crush was reporting on what his "readings" are while of vacation, ooohhhh ahhhh it came to 2,300 pages, hmmm I wonder if he has read the Healthcare bill that he keep lying about to his hand picked townhalls.
Hi WillV...
Have you read other comments here?
Peole throwing the words Nazi/Communist around like they know what they mean?
And you say I am nutted up?
There are new documents that go beyond what was known before.
All I am saying is that America can live up to its known values......
America is a moral, honorable country.
We ARE that STRONG.
As Sen. McCain said "America Does Not Torture".....if they did torture, then stand up like a man and take the heat.
(CBS/AP) With just two weeks of training, or about half the time it takes to become a truck driver, the CIA certified its spies as interrogation experts after 9/11 and handed them the keys to the most coercive tactics in the agency's arsenal.
It was a haphazard process, cobbled together in the months following the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington by an agency that had never been in the interrogation business. The result was a patchwork program in which rules kept shifting and the goals often were unclear.
"At times, the interrogators went too far, even beyond the wide latitude they were given under the Bush administration's flexible guidelines, according to newly unclassified documents released Monday. Interrogators took the simulated drowning technique of waterboarding beyond what was authorized. Mock executions were held. Family members were threatened. There were hints of rape"
To those people whom think Obama is running this country, guess again he is a puppet for people like George Soros,Raum Emmanuel David Axelrod and other socialist. People say Obama should be a leader,this an impossibility for he does not know what leader is.
Another character trait fo THE GREAT APPEASER! Sure am glad he wasn't in office at either Pearl Harbor or 9/11! If he had we might be speaking Japanese or learning Arabic!!
Cheney and Bush should both we put in jail. They're a bunch of hilbilly criminals. Why doesn't Cheney just shut up or have another heart attack!
He's due for one....this one fatal I hope.
TJK Dude this is not torture, this is intel. gathering, torture is much worse, and the U.S. has been useing this kind of persuasion for hundreds of yrs. so don't get all nuted up over this light stuff.
If he wants to keep looking back, perhaps Eric Holder should concentrate on correcting the injustices done to the many AMERICAN VICTIMS of Pan American Flight 103 by Abdel Baset al-Megrahi instead of focusing on treatment of the heartless terrorists who would do anything to destroy our country.
How ironic that people who have been protected by our courageous military, CIA, FBI, and local Police try to punish them. Too bad these armchair elitist can't be put out there on the frontlines for an attitude adjustment. Thank you to ALL who protect us!
All the "bleeding heart liberal bed-wetting pinko-commie Bush/Chenney haters" led by Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman and Rachael Maddow should get on their hands and knees and kiss the feet of every soldier who "stands the wall" every day to protect their sorry a**es from people who wouldn't think twice about cutting their ugly heads off.
The reason for dredging up this investigation is that it is part of the smoke screen to hide other more important issues that are being forced on us right now in hopes (hope and change?) we won't notice all the other very frightening things that this administration is pushing. Do more research on who, what, why, when & how, don't just leave it to your neighbors and journalists.
Is there anything else the Obama Administration can do to help out the enemy win the GWOT, excuse me, Man Made Disaster, in SWA? Last time I checked, helping the enemy during armed conflict is treason.
All the idiots that voted for this socialist have caused great harm to this nation. "A Czar in every pot"......What a joke, but who's laughing?
Lets see here, our interogaters got the detainee's wet, held them under a tad(discomfort), Lied to them made them think another murderer had got shot. HMM a head trip, no harm, got the intel.saved our Boys.,
Well, thats so mean! All they did was kill untold inocence,our Military,UN military, and cut the heads off a few people, poor Ladds. Lets bring them home so we can protect our Presidents fellow Muslims, or no maybe an Island in the pacific so they can get ZEN again For Pete sake people WAKE UP!!!!!
they need to move on-stop tearing down the very things that kept our nation strong.If they are trying to make history , they will -they are bringing this country down beyond repair and recognition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This has been investigated and re-investigated. One person is in prison. To revisit this is a waste of time and money. Obama went into office on the back of hate for Bush and I doubt people even remember why they hated him but with his failing administration Obama needs to try to recreate that hate so that he can begin his campaign yet again. This is simply to keep people from focusing on health care and 11 trillion dollars.
This is what happens when leno,s jaywalkers turn out to vote
This is right out of the Clinton play book. Misdirect, take the focus off a failing health care program so it can get pushed through anyway, take the focus off the failing Obama economy.
Not that it would do any good, but Fox ought to send these comments to BSNBC B@#% S@#$ Nothing But Crap!!
How can we be expected to respect a president who is willing to bow down to the Arabian heads of state and shows more respect for them than he does for the American peoples safety and security? This administrations agenda is to undermine America through whatever means and make us another 2nd, if not 3rd world country!
The Obamaites want us to become the USSSA (United Soviet Socialist States of America)! This from a man who will NOT provide his birth certificate, who will NOT help his own brother who lives in poverty, who will NOT say where his monies to attend one of the most expensive schools in the US came from, who comes from an area notorious for crooked politics, who IS willing to sellout the very people who have kept terriorists at bay since 9-11-01
This administration has a number of issues to find solutions to, why doesn't it pick a few and solve them first before trying to put blame on those who are doing their duties for America. Of course abusing prisoners is wrong. But there is a stark contrast in definition when it comes to interrogation and abuse. Also a stark contrast in these words: prisoner of war, terrorist, former terrorist, leads, leaks, jihad, 9/11, caves, hiding, army, marines, bush, obama, lynch, peace. hm.
Eric Holder should be repremanded by the President for failing to follow his stated wishes. Nothing good can be derived from looking back.
To Deanna Zohar,
I agree that it is not a popular thing to do. That just adds to why it is the right thing to do. John McCain, who knows better than anyone about Torture said:
"AMERICA DOES NOT TORTURE."
If we did, for whatever reason, those who tortured and those that commanded it be done need to be held ACCOUNTABLE.
It is the only way that we, as a UNITED STATES can maintain our integrity.
This is a country of LAWS, not a country where the "End Justify the Means".
Just another stupid "Power Play" but the idiot Eric Holder to gain what? These cases have been reviewed already and now he wants to "review" them again. Talk about a Witch Hunt. I think Obama needs to get control of his WHOLE Administration as it is clear he is NOT in charge!! Wake up Obama and get your team in line, they work for you! It's also a good way to draw some of the heat away from Health Care/Insurance Reform however the new deficit numbers of $2 Trillion more won't help! Waiting for the change I can believe in.
How much longer will the American people have to put up with this socialist/communist administration? Its so very obvious what King B.Hussein's O-Bummer's agenda is--destroy America.
WOW!!! Look at those comments!!! Now that's a poll of Fox fans, for sure!!!! LOL!!
Below is what Harry Truman had to say about America.
I wish the conservative movement of today would try this sometime.
“America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination, and unbeatable determination to do the job at hand.”
~ Harry S Truman
William F. Buckley is rolling in his grave over the spew that comes out of the conservative movement in America today.
we should do WHATEVER it takes to get info from these ppl that r trying to harm this great nation and its ppl. do u think they care about how they treat use?? NOT!!!!! I feel this is one of many things that we do not need to know. Now the terrorist can come and do what they what because they fell they have all the rights that we do and that just wrong. WAY TO GO OBAMA. why don't u go out and fight with our troops and see how it really is.
If Eric Holder has his way, why would anybody work for the CIA? These people should be praised for saving our country and keeping us SAFE!! This administration is going backwards. I, for one, am in favor of enhanced interrogation as I assume were most of us Americans after attacks on US soil as well as on our other institutions.
While we are at it, why don't we round up the remaining WWII Vets and try them for murdering the Nazis? Oh, No! Wait a minute. We can't do that. Roosevelt and Truman (the presidents that presided over WWII) were both Democrats. Shucks!
Unfortunatly most of the survivors of the Natzi Prision camps like my uncle who was captured in the Anzio landing in Italy are not alive to tell how they were six foot one and carried 210 pounds when captured and 96 pounds when they escaped later. They would tell people that if they caught a rat or mouse they would have a banquit. Many were taken to the woods and assinated to make sure the camp guards would have enough to eat. The seldon read accounts of the Bataan Death Morch conduced by the Japaneese where thousands of American Souldies died for lack of water in the 900 mile march is somehow forgotten. Vietnam captives were abused from day one as were the Korean War captives. John McCAin has made a film about this but does not talk to the American people about the abusive treatment of prisioners in Vietnam. This nonsense about putting the CIA on some type of an inqusitions is again like they did in the Clinton Administration makes my life for dangerous. Soon the Names of all CIA Operatives will be published world wide like they were in the Clinton Administration. People who are captured in these situations do not respond to handing them a tulip. My uncles were asked to fight against communism in Korea and I was asked to fight against communism is Vietnan. Most of us voted Democratic all of our lives because we believe in the middle class. I do not believe the current administration is socialist. I clearly believe that the powers in this administration are communists.
Yet another ditractionary technique by the libs to keep our minds off of healthcare
This administration continues it's destruction of America. Good luck getting people to put their lives on the line to HELP us. This will only weaken us and our allies will no longer want to help for fear of some left wing idiot lawyer hauling them in to court to prosecute a patriot.
Every time you have no answers you turn attention back to the Bush admin.
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN MESS THAT YOU CREATED.
WE ARE AT WAR! TURN YOUR ENERGY ON OUR ENEMIES INSTEAD OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY YOU MORON!
I am an american who believes that inorder to get information out of someone we can't just slap thier hand, we have to force it out. The terrorist wont hand us the information, they dont like us!!
Obama has been in the White House only a very short time and already has led our country down the tubes, financially and otherwise. Why do we accept his placement of Chicago thugs at the helm of many departments? And why in the world has he created so many artificial titles "czars" who are not responsible to anyone but the president. This is sort of a reminder of Germany in the 1930s, such as the Brown Shirts.
RL...Bush had good reason to partially blame Clinton for 9/11. If memory serves, Sudan offered Bin Laden's head on a platter in the late 1990's and Clinton's Justice Department advised him to let him go!!! I believe that the nit-wit Holder was the #2 man in Clinton adminstration justice department. It would seem that Holder is more interested in protecting terrorist's "rights" than he is in protecting our country.
Another distration from this pathetic Obama fools in hopes that the public will stop looking at the damage they are doing to our country, economy, loss of jobs and their robbing and looting! Not going to work!
Freeze the theft Stimulus bills that were not for job creation but to pay off political hacks. Where's the money? Where are those jobs, jobs, jobs? Miserable, corrupt thieves!
Once again, Obama's goons are behaving STUPIDLY!
The CIA has protected us for many years. Let them do what ever is necessary to protect us. This country need to take some lessons from the TV series "24". Things are only going to get worse. This administration is only doing the blame game again. If the enemy is not going to play by the rules, why should we? At my age, there is no such thing as a fair fight. I am out to survive!